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Lars Brinkhoff 7891748263 Update saved GitHub data.
2018-06-07 17:44:24 +02:00

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"body": "Oh, the ITS name part is short - I claim \"SJ\" for San Jose.\r\n\r\nThe long domain part for the HOSTS file is just me wanting to look for anything that expect a short domain and barfs."
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"body": "That's fine with me. Do you have any other information you want to be added, such as IP number, Chaosnet address?"
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"body": "Will sort the rest out in the morning - I can create repos from my phone, but not get a non-IPv6 IP from it!\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Feb 19, 2017, at 02:14, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> That's fine with me. Do you have any other information you want to be added, such as IP number, Chaosnet address?\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you commented.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "I don't know how to use this. The code works with numbers that may be the TTY number, or maybe a user index.\r\n\r\nIf you can make it do something useful, we can add some comments to document it."
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"created_at": "2017-02-19T22:33:06Z",
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"body": "What are the length limits on chaosnet addresses?\r\n\r\nIP will be 50.131.218.138"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T05:37:43Z",
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"body": "> What are the length limits on chaosnet addresses?\r\n\r\nIt's just 16 bits, divided into 8 bits for the subnet number, and 8 for the node. We're using subnet 6, stolen from MIT."
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"body": "Can I go with 7100 for a host address? (7 - California LATA prefix, 100 was the address for DEC-WRL per the pickle experiment paper)"
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"body": "There is a TOPS-20 CHAOSNET implementation buried in SRI-NIC's SRC: dump (wow, do I really have its contents memorised?!) \r\n\r\nI believe it was under SRC:<MIT.MONITOR>"
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"body": "Yep - https://github.com/PDP-10/sri-nic/blob/master/files/src/mit/monitor/chaos.mac"
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"body": "Sure, let's go with that! I made a guess that sj.gewt.net would be the hostname."
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"body": "Made by @MMcM and @jtw43, among others.\r\n\r\nSo there's a CHAOS.MAC from Symbolics' Foonly, and CHAOS.MAC, OLDCHAOS.MAC, and NEW-CHAOS.MAC from SRI-NIC. They all seem to share lots of code.\r\n\r\nIn addition, the Foonly has CHABUG.MAC, CHAOS0.MAC, and CHATTY.MAC."
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"body": "Should consult SAILDART to see if WAITS had it too ;)\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Feb 19, 2017, at 23:57, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> Made by @MMcM and @jtw43, among others.\n> \n> So there's a CHAOS.MAC from Symbolics' Foonly, and CHAOS.MAC, OLDCHAOS.MAC, and NEW-CHAOS.MAC from SRI-NIC. They all seem to share lots of code.\n> \n> In addition, the Foonly has CHABUG.MAC, CHAOS0.MAC, and CHATTY.MAC.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you commented.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "I see in an old host table that there were Chaosnet for\r\n\r\n- Macintosh\r\n- PDP-11: Unix, MINITS, MOS\r\n- MSDOS\r\n- SunOS\r\n- VAX: Unix, VMS\r\n- Multics\r\n\r\nBascially, everything at MIT."
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"body": "Fun fact: Setting an IP number to 0.0.0.0 in the host table makes the NAME build fail. Maybe only if that host is in ITSIRP?"
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"body": "I have been testing this during the weekend. Setting hostname and Chaosnet address does work, and it doesn't break TCP/IP networking. Enabling Chaosnet in KLH10 *seems* to work somewhat, but I haven't been able to connect to @bictorv's UP.\r\n\r\nFor the purpuse of this pull request, I consider the test good enough."
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T08:50:45Z",
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"body": "Do not forget Lisp Machines (MIT, LMI, Symbolics, and TI)."
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"body": "I didn't forget, it's just too obvious to mention. :-)"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T08:56:15Z",
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"body": "For the record, I have a early MIT Chaosnet for Unix implementation."
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"body": "Maybe it's time to mention that someone (not me, though!) did have the monitor starting (and crashing) in an emulator so it's doable.\n\nI can upload the PLC config file if anyone can decipher it.\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Feb 20, 2017, at 00:55, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> I didn't forget, it's just too obvious to mention. :-)\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you commented.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T08:58:22Z",
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"body": "UPDATE: CFTP is working!"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T09:25:21Z",
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"body": "@ams I do want to include Lispms in the Chaos network. I seem to recall the physical machines do Chaos over Ethernet, so that would be local networks only?\r\n\r\nBrad's emulator uses unix sockets, so that's even less accessible from internet.\r\n\r\nI think @bictorv's UDP tunnel is unique to KLH10, so it's ITS only for now. His bridge would be very useful, though.\r\n\r\nDave Conroy's PDP-10/X does Chaos over IP, but he may be alone in doing that."
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"body": "Physical machines used a real Chaos card, and could do Chaos just like PDP-10. (Some had a Ethernet card, and where capable of TCP/IP.) The work has to be done in one of the simulators, they are generally using sockets for the communication -- so one (@ams?) would have make it talk properly. Alas, I'm mostly working on the HDL version of the MIT CADR right now."
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"body": "But I am sure we could re-use @bictorv UDP stuff from KLH10."
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"body": "I think we are good to go. Awaiting build status."
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"body": "Hey @eswenson1, do you have Multics set up for Chaosnet? Or TCP/IP for that matter?"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T12:33:23Z",
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"body": "I added the binary, and the link.\r\n\r\nI'm not sure what its purpose is. If you do `^r cha:`, you get a list of active Chaosnet connections, same as :peek K.\r\n\r\nCFTP to DB doesn't work. I was hoping this would fix it, but it didn't. I suppose ATSIGN CHAOS or CHAOS FILE isn't quite on board yet."
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"body": "Ooops, hold on, I should update MLDEV too."
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T13:11:56Z",
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"body": "Oh, I already did that. $P"
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T13:35:56Z",
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"body": "I'm tacking on DEVICE; CHAOS NAME and DEVICE; CHAOS too."
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"created_at": "2017-02-20T14:48:27Z",
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"body": "@larsbrinkhoff Unfortunately, no networking software for Multics can be found. Only kermit and IMFT transfers in and out of Multics. Hoping someone can find some tapes of TCP/IP stack."
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"body": "CC @dthittner"
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"created_at": "2017-02-21T10:34:49Z",
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"body": "Is this a complete list of Chaosnet transport mechanisms?\r\n\r\n- Real Chaos hardware\r\n- Ethernet type 0804 frames\r\n- IP protocol 16 packets (maybe used by David Conroy?)\r\n- @bictorv's UDP encapsulation\r\n- @lisper's Unix sockets\r\n\r\nSupporting protocols:\r\n\r\n- ARP: hardware type 5\r\n- DNS: class CH"
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"body": "@eswenson1 How about this? http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2016-February/015052.html\r\n\r\n> To do something useful you need a host that emulates the RFC1822 interface and talks to one of the IMPs. Not too long ago Charles Anthony did that for the DPS8 and Multics, and I believe he actually got that working."
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"body": "So when will we have a microcode emulator? :)"
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"body": "There is one by @jfcl for KS10: https://github.com/KS10FPGA/KS10FPGA.\r\n\r\n@alanmimms started a software KL10 microcode interpreter."
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"body": "Dave Conroy's PDP-10/X uses vertical microcode.\r\n\r\n@dabridgham, does your implemetation use a microsequencer?"
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"body": "I was talking about software emulation. An FPGA implementation I wouldn't call an emulator."
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"body": "Yeah, there's some disagreement whether \"emulator\" involves hardware or not."
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"body": "No microcode in mine, just a big state machine."
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"created_at": "2017-02-21T16:57:12Z",
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"body": "I'd like NCP support, actually - that way we could speak to TOPS-20 4.1 et al."
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"body": "The ITS side shouldn't be a huge problem. There's a SYSTEM; IMPOLD WTHNCP. It was written for the KA/KL IMP interfaces. Actually, there were two: DM had its own thing, and AI/ML/MC another.\r\n\r\nAs for the emulators, I don't think there's any support for those hardware interfaces, or NCP."
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"body": "Yes, Charles got the IMP interface working — unfortunately, there is no Multics software stack source code available for code that uses the IMP. Actually, that is not completely true — there is some — just not a complete stack. I worked on getting the higher level software that uses NCP/IMP compiled and integrated but found too much of the underpinings that talked to the IMP (ABSI interface) missing. We abandoned the approach because we know of the existence (no source located yet) for the TCP/IP implementation that was user-ring (rather than ring-0). There are tapes available (we think) but no one has dared try to read them for fear of destroying them. Olin Sibert is the keeper of said tapes and we think the TCP/IP software may be on them. \n\nHoneywell had the TCP/IP software as a “separately priced product”. And when Bull placed the Multics sources in the public domain, it didn’t include the TCP/IP stack. — Eric\n\n> On Feb 21, 2017, at 02:58, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> @eswenson1 <https://github.com/eswenson1> How about this? http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2016-February/015052.html <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2016-February/015052.html>\n> To do something useful you need a host that emulates the RFC1822 interface and talks to one of the IMPs. Not too long ago Charles Anthony did that for the DPS8 and Multics, and I believe he actually got that working.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/17#issuecomment-281311034>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-Yww5sc14ZqFZD3ORgxCr2Ivgz41Jks5resNvgaJpZM4K7Wdo>.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "Get the tapes to Al Kossow at the CHM to read 'em."
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"body": "Olin is worried that they will be ruined in the process. He’s aware (and has been in discussions with) Al Kossow and the CHM. I’ll ping Olin about it again to see where he is at. — Eric\n\n> On Feb 21, 2017, at 18:06, gewt <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> Get the tapes to Al Kossow at the CHM to read 'em.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/17#issuecomment-281545415>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-Y6Va7zkb4Bcjaiypp8ctz6VmKCPlks5re5gNgaJpZM4K7Wdo>.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "On 2/21/17 8:31 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n> Yes, Charles got the IMP interface working — unfortunately, there is \n> no Multics software stack source code available for code that uses the \n> IMP. Actually, that is not completely true — there is some — just not \n> a complete stack. I worked on getting the higher level software that \n> uses NCP/IMP compiled and integrated but found too much of the \n> underpinings that talked to the IMP (ABSI interface) missing. We \n> abandoned the approach because we know of the existence (no source \n> located yet) for the TCP/IP implementation that was user-ring (rather \n> than ring-0). There are tapes available (we think) but no one has \n> dared try to read them for fear of destroying them. Olin Sibert is the \n> keeper of said tapes and we think the TCP/IP software may be on them.\n>\n> Honeywell had the TCP/IP software as a “separately priced product”. \n> And when Bull placed the Multics sources in the public domain, it \n> didn’t include the TCP/IP stack. — Eric\nurg. it's late. I should not be replying. but I have some BBN tapes. \nI read them. and gave the images back.\nI could swear they had early tcp/ip. but multics. wow. that would be \npl/1. which I would recognize. They didn't I have that. everything I \nsaw was unix+. It was all C code. 8 bit ascii.\n\nhaving said too much, if someone had 9-track tapes, I could warm them. \nslowly. and remove the moisture and attempt a read them. I know how to \ndo that. It depends on the vintage of the tape and who made it. Some \ntapes read well - others, not so well.\n\nI have never seen multics source on 1/2\" tape. I'm (humbly) going to \nguess that pre-dates 9-track. I showed up on the 9-track scene around \n1977. Lol. Most of my MIT friends were in diapers. I'm not a 7-track \nguy. That's before my time.\n\n-brad\n\n"
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"body": "Multics tapes are 9-track. \n\n-- Eric\n\n\n> On Feb 21, 2017, at 18:56, Brad Parker <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> On 2/21/17 8:31 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n> > Yes, Charles got the IMP interface working — unfortunately, there is \n> > no Multics software stack source code available for code that uses the \n> > IMP. Actually, that is not completely true — there is some — just not \n> > a complete stack. I worked on getting the higher level software that \n> > uses NCP/IMP compiled and integrated but found too much of the \n> > underpinings that talked to the IMP (ABSI interface) missing. We \n> > abandoned the approach because we know of the existence (no source \n> > located yet) for the TCP/IP implementation that was user-ring (rather \n> > than ring-0). There are tapes available (we think) but no one has \n> > dared try to read them for fear of destroying them. Olin Sibert is the \n> > keeper of said tapes and we think the TCP/IP software may be on them.\n> >\n> > Honeywell had the TCP/IP software as a “separately priced product”. \n> > And when Bull placed the Multics sources in the public domain, it \n> > didn’t include the TCP/IP stack. — Eric\n> urg. it's late. I should not be replying. but I have some BBN tapes. \n> I read them. and gave the images back.\n> I could swear they had early tcp/ip. but multics. wow. that would be \n> pl/1. which I would recognize. They didn't I have that. everything I \n> saw was unix+. It was all C code. 8 bit ascii.\n> \n> having said too much, if someone had 9-track tapes, I could warm them. \n> slowly. and remove the moisture and attempt a read them. I know how to \n> do that. It depends on the vintage of the tape and who made it. Some \n> tapes read well - others, not so well.\n> \n> I have never seen multics source on 1/2\" tape. I'm (humbly) going to \n> guess that pre-dates 9-track. I showed up on the 9-track scene around \n> 1977. Lol. Most of my MIT friends were in diapers. I'm not a 7-track \n> guy. That's before my time.\n> \n> -brad\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "\n\n\n\n\n\nOn Tue, Feb 21, 2017, at 18:56, Brad Parker wrote:\n\n> On 2/21/17 8:31 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n\n> > Yes, Charles got the IMP interface working — unfortunately,\n> > there is\n> > no Multics software stack source code available for code that\n> > uses the\n> > IMP. Actually, that is not completely true — there is some —\n> > just not\n> > a complete stack. I worked on getting the higher level\n> > software that\n> > uses NCP/IMP compiled and integrated but found too much of the \n\n> > underpinings that talked to the IMP (ABSI interface) missing. We \n\n> > abandoned the approach because we know of the existence (no source\n> > located yet) for the TCP/IP implementation that was user-ring\n> > (rather\n> > than ring-0). There are tapes available (we think) but no one has\n> > dared try to read them for fear of destroying them. Olin Sibert\n> > is the\n> > keeper of said tapes and we think the TCP/IP software may be on\n> > them.\n> >\n\n> > Honeywell had the TCP/IP software as a “separately priced product”.\n> > And when Bull placed the Multics sources in the public domain, it\n> > didn’t include the TCP/IP stack. — Eric\n\n> urg. it's late. I should not be replying. but I have some\n> BBN tapes.\n> I read them. and gave the images back.\n\n> I could swear they had early tcp/ip. but multics. wow. that\n> would be\n> pl/1. which I would recognize. They didn't I have that.\n> everything I\n> saw was unix+. It was all C code. 8 bit ascii.\n\n> \n\n> having said too much, if someone had 9-track tapes, I could\n> warm them.\n> slowly. and remove the moisture and attempt a read them. I\n> know how to\n> do that. It depends on the vintage of the tape and who made\n> it. Some\n> tapes read well - others, not so well.\n\n> \n\n> I have never seen multics source on 1/2\" tape. I'm (humbly) going to\n> guess that pre-dates 9-track. I showed up on the 9-track\n> scene around\n> 1977. Lol. Most of my MIT friends were in diapers. I'm not a\n> 7-track\n> guy. That's before my time.\n\n> \n\n> -brad\n\n> \n\n> \n\n> — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email\n> directly, view it on GitHub[1], or mute the thread[2].\n> \n\n\n\nDo you still have the images? I'm collecting ... well, everything. ;)\n\n\n\n--\n\n Cory Smelosky\n\n b4@gewt.net\n\n\n\n\n\n\nLinks:\n\n 1. https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/17#issuecomment-281553725\n 2. https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AACsnAZf2XCVVn1WT79_xfn_NVf7jUt9ks5re6PYgaJpZM4K7Wdo\n"
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"body": "On 2/21/17 9:59 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n> Multics tapes are 9-track.\nReally? That doesn't match my recollection or the hard data I have \nseen. Can you back that up?\n\nI've never seen a multics tape in 9-track. and trust me, I can go \ntoe-to-toe.\n\n-brad\n\n"
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"body": "From Hacker's Dictionary:\r\n\r\n**OS and JEDGAR**\r\n\r\nThis story says a lot about the ITS ethos.\r\n\r\nOn the ITS system there was a program that allowed you to see what was being printed on someone else's terminal. It spied on the other guy's output by examining the insides of the monitor system. The output spy program was called OS. Throughout the rest of the computer science world (and at IBM too) OS means operating system’, but among old-time ITS hackers it almost always meant ‘output spy’.\r\n\r\nOS could work because ITS purposely had very little in the way of ‘protection’ that prevented one user from trespassing on another's areas. Fair is fair, however. There was another program that would automatically notify you if anyone started to spy on your output. It worked in exactly the same way, by looking at the insides of the operating system to see if anyone else was looking at the insides that had to do with your output. This ‘counterspy’ program was called JEDGAR (a six-letterism pronounced as two syllables: /jed´gr/), in honor of the former head of the FBI.\r\n\r\nBut there's more. JEDGAR would ask the user for ‘license to kill’. If the user said yes, then JEDGAR would actually gun the job of the luser who was spying. Unfortunately, people found that this made life too violent, especially when tourists learned about it. One of the systems hackers solved the problem by replacing JEDGAR with another program that only pretended to do its job. It took a long time to do this, because every copy of JEDGAR had to be patched. To this day no one knows how many people never figured out that JEDGAR had been defanged."
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"body": "Looks like 128.52.0.0/16 and 18.0.0.0/16 still belong to MIT, so the routing information is not entirely obsolete. However, I believe the gateways will be hard to reach at those IP numbers!"
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"body": "We grabbed MIT's Chaos subnet 6 for some ITS machines.\r\n\r\n@b4's SJ is at 7100, which is node 0 in subnet 16. I don't know how Chaos routing is supposed to work, but :UP SJ works from my 3150 node in subnet 6."
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"body": "ATM it's P2P - is it routable at all using ITS?\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Feb 22, 2017, at 23:27, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> We grabbed MIT's Chaos subnet 6 for some ITS machines.\n> \n> @b4's SJ is at 7100, which is node 0 in subnet 16. I don't know how Chaos routing is supposed to work, but :UP SJ works from my 3150 node in subnet 6.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "IP routing is hardcoded in SYSTEM; INET 139. See GWDEF and the IPGW tables.\r\n\r\nITS seems to accept some kind of Chaosnet RUT packet with routing information. There's also some support for routing in @bictorv's CH11 device emulator."
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"body": "These are the ones we use. The first two work for both TCP and Chaosnet.\r\n\r\n- SYSNET; TELSER 172 - TELNET and SUPDUP server\r\n- SYSNET; SUPDUP 325 - SUDUP client\r\n- SYSNET; TELNET 752 - TELNET client for TCP\r\n- SYSNET; CHTN 15 - TELNET client for Chaosnet"
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"body": "I removed it because I see it as a local configuration for your network.\r\n\r\nWe can keep it now if you want, but in that case, I'd like to later move it to another place which is not checked into the repository. Maybe similar to how you can put local user directories in `user`."
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"body": "As of now, this is my local configuration for NO.nocrew.org: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/its/compare/lars/chaos\r\n\r\nDo you need a gateway name configured as well?"
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"body": "Well, without a gateway host configured, the it's won't be able to send any outbound mail or route ip traffic to any other host, right?\n\n-- Eric\n\n\n> On Feb 23, 2017, at 07:51, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> As of now, this is my local configuration for NO.nocrew.org:\n> https://github.com/PDP-10/its/compare/lars/chaos\n> \n> Do you need a gateway name configured as well?\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because your review was requested.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": ";;; INSUFFERABLE DEVICE NAME DISTINGUISHER \r\nL; QIO >, symbol IDNTB. Read it and weep!"
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"body": "Well, as far as I remember when I used Multics at the Pentagon, MIT, and CISL (Honeywell Multics development group in Cambridge, MA), the tape drives were all 9-track. However, Multics did support both 7-track and 9-track tapes. From the manual “Multics Programmers Reference Manual”, AG91-04, Appendix F:\n\nAPPENDIX F\nMULTICS STANDARD MAGNETIC TAPE FORMAT\nThis appendix describes the standard physical format used on 7-track and 9-track\nmagnetic tapes on Multics. Tapes of this form may be written and read by the\ntape_mult_ I/O module (described in the Subroutines manual). Any magnetic tape not\nwritten in the standard format described here is not a Multics standard tape.\nSTANDARD TAPE FORMAT\nThe first recorded block on the tape following the beginning of tape (BOT)\nmark is the tape label record. Following the tape label record is an end of file\n(EOF) mark. Subsequent reels of a multireel sequence also have a tape label followed\nby an EOF mark. (An EOF mark is the standard sequence of bits on a tape that is\nrecognized as an EOF by the hardware.)\nFollowing the tape label and its associated EOF are the data records. An EOF is\nwritten after every 128 data records with the objective of increasing the reliability and\nefficiency of reading and positioning within a logical tape. Records that are repeated\nbecause of transmission. parity. or other data alerts are not included in the count of\n128 records. The first record following the EOF has a physical record count of 0\nmod 128 .\n. A.n end of reel (EOR) sequence is written at the end of recorded data. An EOR\nsequence is:\nEOF mark\nEOR record\nEOF mark\nEOF mark\n\nIt goes on from there. You can find that manual here: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AG91-04A_mpmVol2_Jan87.pdf\n\n— Eric\n\n> On Feb 21, 2017, at 19:12, Brad Parker <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> On 2/21/17 9:59 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n> > Multics tapes are 9-track.\n> Really? That doesn't match my recollection or the hard data I have \n> seen. Can you back that up?\n> \n> I've never seen a multics tape in 9-track. and trust me, I can go \n> toe-to-toe.\n> \n> -brad\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/17#issuecomment-281556066>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-YwMsNG7bD6g6pibivkynsj6bFFgrks5re6eJgaJpZM4K7Wdo>.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "And when logged into Multics, and using the help system to describe the various resource types, I get this:\n\nList of reserved attribute names: The following attributes are\nmandatory for the devices named, and must appear in all RTMFs.\n\nFor the disk_drive device\n\n model=400 model=451 model=181\n model=191 model=500 model=402\n\nFor the tape_drive device\n\n track=7 track=9\n den=200 den=556\n den=800 den=1600\n model=400 model=500\n model=600 model=610\n\nThe model tape drives that I remember on Multics systems were MTU500. However, looking in the TOLTS manual, I see that the following tape drives are supported:\n\nMAGNETIC TAPE STORAGE:\nMTS500 7/9 Track Tape Handler\nMTU0400/MTU0500 7/9 Track Tape Handler\nMTU0410 7/9 Track Tape Handler\nMTU0600 7/9 Track Tape Handler\nMTU0610/630 7/9 Track Tape Handler\n— Eric\n\n> On Feb 23, 2017, at 10:00, Eric Swenson <eric@swenson.org> wrote:\n> \n> Well, as far as I remember when I used Multics at the Pentagon, MIT, and CISL (Honeywell Multics development group in Cambridge, MA), the tape drives were all 9-track. However, Multics did support both 7-track and 9-track tapes. From the manual “Multics Programmers Reference Manual”, AG91-04, Appendix F:\n> \n> APPENDIX F\n> MULTICS STANDARD MAGNETIC TAPE FORMAT\n> This appendix describes the standard physical format used on 7-track and 9-track\n> magnetic tapes on Multics. Tapes of this form may be written and read by the\n> tape_mult_ I/O module (described in the Subroutines manual). Any magnetic tape not\n> written in the standard format described here is not a Multics standard tape.\n> STANDARD TAPE FORMAT\n> The first recorded block on the tape following the beginning of tape (BOT)\n> mark is the tape label record. Following the tape label record is an end of file\n> (EOF) mark. Subsequent reels of a multireel sequence also have a tape label followed\n> by an EOF mark. (An EOF mark is the standard sequence of bits on a tape that is\n> recognized as an EOF by the hardware.)\n> Following the tape label and its associated EOF are the data records. An EOF is\n> written after every 128 data records with the objective of increasing the reliability and\n> efficiency of reading and positioning within a logical tape. Records that are repeated\n> because of transmission. parity. or other data alerts are not included in the count of\n> 128 records. The first record following the EOF has a physical record count of 0\n> mod 128 .\n> . A.n end of reel (EOR) sequence is written at the end of recorded data. An EOR\n> sequence is:\n> EOF mark\n> EOR record\n> EOF mark\n> EOF mark\n> \n> It goes on from there. You can find that manual here: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AG91-04A_mpmVol2_Jan87.pdf <http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/honeywell/multics/AG91-04A_mpmVol2_Jan87.pdf>\n> \n> — Eric\n> \n>> On Feb 21, 2017, at 19:12, Brad Parker <notifications@github.com <mailto:notifications@github.com>> wrote:\n>> \n>> On 2/21/17 9:59 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n>> > Multics tapes are 9-track.\n>> Really? That doesn't match my recollection or the hard data I have \n>> seen. Can you back that up?\n>> \n>> I've never seen a multics tape in 9-track. and trust me, I can go \n>> toe-to-toe.\n>> \n>> -brad\n>> \n>> —\n>> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/17#issuecomment-281556066>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-YwMsNG7bD6g6pibivkynsj6bFFgrks5re6eJgaJpZM4K7Wdo>.\n>> \n> \n\n"
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"body": "JOBS classified VIEW as FileRead."
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"body": "Ugh. And I note that DB isn't on that list. "
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"body": "DECSYS; DECUUO >, symbol strtab.\r\n\r\nINQUIR; DMUNCH >, the whole penultimate page.\r\n\r\nSYSEN3; WHOJ >, symbol DEVTAB.\r\n\r\n"
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"body": "On 2/23/17 1:00 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n> Well, as far as I remember when I used Multics at the Pentagon, MIT, \n> and CISL (Honeywell Multics development group in Cambridge, MA), the \n> tape drives were all 9-track. However, Multics did support both \n> 7-track and 9-track tapes. From the manual “Multics Programmers \n> Reference Manual”, AG91-04, Appendix F:\nAh, maybe that's it. When I say \"multics\" I just mean \"multics at \nMIT\". As far as I know, all of the MIT multics machines only had 7 \ntrack drives. I can't comment on other places, sorry. I misunderstood \nand thought you meant at MIT, sorry.\n\n-brad\n\n"
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"body": "Added screeen shot."
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"body": "No, it's built from SYSENG; CTIMSR 16."
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"body": "Linked to issues created for most of the missing services."
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"body": "What is that problem? "
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"body": "M3MAKE needs the HOSTS3 program in SYSHST; HOSTS3 BIN. It tries to open that file."
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"body": "This is probably one cause for Chaosnet services not working!"
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"body": "It has a special feature: it only copies FOO; to BAR;"
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"body": "@BobKerns This is your program I've been manhandling. I added JCL parsing and made it handle directories on any devices."
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"body": "@b4 You may want to install this change on SJ."
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"body": "ITS or sleep...I choose ITS ;) Give me a few."
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"body": "It should only take a minute to move the file or create a link. I don't think a reboot should be necessary, but I'm not sure."
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"body": "I wanted to do a full clean and rebuilt as I needed to try and track down a bug."
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"body": "Okay. Installed."
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"body": "Great, CFTP to SJ works now."
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"body": "What speeds?"
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"created_at": "2017-02-27T07:52:49Z",
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"body": "I have UDP port 42042 set up to be forwarded from the host to ITS. That seems to work. But now that you mention it, I'm not sure it's necessary.\r\n\r\nSpeed is abysmal: CFTP reports around \"30 KBaud\"."
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"body": "I will want to investigate what is causing it to be that bad.\n\nIt could be the internet, or I misconfigured I/O priorities.\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Feb 26, 2017, at 23:52, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> I have UDP port 42042 set up to be forwarded from the host to ITS. That seems to work. But now that you mention it, I'm not sure it's necessary.\n> \n> Speed is abysmal: CFTP reports around \"30 KBaud\".\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "I also tried to SUPDUP into SJ. I could login just fine. Response to typing was really slow, but I could make myself a home directory. But then the connection seemed to hang. So yes, there's something to investiate."
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"created_at": "2017-02-27T09:18:00Z",
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"body": "Programs adding MIT- for output:\r\n- CFTP\r\n- DECUUO\r\n- GMSGS\r\n- LSRTNS\r\n- PWORD\r\n- WHOJ"
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"body": "I looked in every file for ATSIGN and PEEK near each other, and found nothing. I'm inclined to believe it's not used anywhere."
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"created_at": "2017-02-27T12:46:28Z",
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"body": "I now regularly make Chaosnet connections with UP and SJ. I'd say this is done."
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"body": "SYS1; TS DFTP source missing.\r\n\r\nEDIT: \r\nINFO; DFTP 1 \r\nINFO; DFTP 2 \r\n.INFO.; DFTP CHART \r\n.INFO.; DFTP INFO \r\n.INFO.; DFTP ORDER\r\nDATCOM; DFTP 191 \r\nMRC; DFTP 200"
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"body": "SYS1; TS MEMSTA source missing."
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"body": "SYS1; TS MERGE source missing."
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"body": "I think this snoops the system console by default. If you enter an octal terminal number on the command line, that is snooped instead."
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"created_at": "2017-03-01T08:38:50Z",
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"body": "SYS2; TS HP source missing. #570"
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"created_at": "2017-03-01T08:55:14Z",
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"body": "SYS2; TS STTY source missing. #571 \r\n\r\nEDIT: ARCHY; STTY 31 \r\nEDIT: Found. #668"
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"created_at": "2017-03-01T12:00:40Z",
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"body": "Needs to add `.INSRT SYSENG;DATIME` to add missing definitions.\r\n\r\nBut still, there's a crash when printing a date."
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"created_at": "2017-03-02T09:01:30Z",
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"body": "The first draft is identical to the SUPDUP character set documented in [RFC 734](https://github.com/PDP-10/supdup/blob/master/doc/rfc734.txt).\r\n\r\nThings I'm particularly unsure about are:\r\n- Do codes 136 and 137 retain their ASCII glyphs ^ and _, or should they display as arrows as in \"old ASCII\"?\r\n- Do codes 175-176 copy from SAIL (ALTMODE and }) or ASCII (} and ~)?"
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"body": "I suspect ITS and therefore SUPDUP originally used the SAIL character set and it was changed for the RFC but that's just speculation."
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"body": "I'm guessing the canonical ITS character set would have been the one used by the Knight TV. But I don't know exactly what that looked like."
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"created_at": "2017-03-03T11:35:39Z",
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"body": "I found the Knight TV font, and it's the the same character set as documented in this pull request."
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"created_at": "2017-03-03T13:48:19Z",
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"body": "The PRUFD source file seems to be broken. See the end: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/src/sysen2/prufd.10#L404"
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]
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