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Lars Brinkhoff 7891748263 Update saved GitHub data.
2018-06-07 17:44:24 +02:00

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"body": "Can you please send this to me I will get it to run and test the paging system."
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"created_at": "2018-01-24T13:34:02Z",
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"body": "First shot: http://youtu.be/MwhsdO0avuU"
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"body": "I booted it off paper tape and got this:\r\n\r\n```\r\nTYPE DDT LOCATION OR CR 162/\r\nLOADED 617244636463 STORED 017000000152 ERR 000244636531 WD 1 \r\nCONTINUE? \r\nHALT instruction, PC: 000130 (JSR 0,3541)\r\n"
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"body": "Joel Moses, probably at the MIT-MC console:\r\n![](http://groups.csail.mit.edu/medg/people/psz/LCS-75/Moses.jpg)"
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"created_at": "2018-01-24T15:28:08Z",
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"body": "Lots of PDP-6 exposure in the Chess section: \r\nhttp://akron.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/cubechess-04"
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"created_at": "2018-01-24T15:46:43Z",
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"body": "Yes. That’s the right orientation for MC’s LA36 (I think it was) and the 11. And Prof Moses would have used MC."
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"body": "Video gaming at MIT. \r\n![](https://mitmuseum.mit.edu/sites/default/files/spacewar.jpg)"
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"body": "That is a LA36, I tore enough of these appear in college to remember them. Looks like they took off the clear plastic cover over the print area."
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"body": "@Devon7 about the display:\r\n> Very slow fade, you could still read an erased screen although it was very dim, maybe even a minute later. Soft edged pixel blobs but no fog effect to speak of.\r\n\r\n"
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"body": "https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc441"
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"created_at": "2018-01-24T16:38:56Z",
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"body": "Looks like this is ARPAnet only."
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"body": "Used for the TALK in #625?"
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"body": "Probably used IEC in #626, which perhaps was only working with NCP.\r\n\r\nMaybe that's why @cstacy wrote in the newer TALK/WHOJ:\r\n\r\n> This is a little MLDEV crock to keep me less annoyed until the ITS RSSER stuff gets converted. It takes JCL, which should be the name of an ITS machine.\r\n\r\nThe old TALK didn't work anymore after the transition to TCP/IP?"
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"body": "Jeff Harris, unknown, and Licklider by an MIT PDP-10 console. But which one?\r\n![](https://media.production.apnarm.net.au/img/media/images/2014/10/01/jcr_licklider_photo_courtesy_mit_csail_wwwcsailmitedu-3wxychtvst9wvnf3xi2_t620.jpg)"
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"body": "Licklider ran the Dynamic Modelling group, right? So it may be DM."
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"body": "The keyboard: ![](http://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/Knight1.jpeg)"
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"body": "What? No demonstration of emacs? Foo!"
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"body": "\nOn 23 Jan 2018, at 10:52, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n>Game by @SimHacker <https://github.com/simhacker> written in LOGO:\n>http://donhopkins.com/home/archive/logo/adventure.logo <http://donhopkins.com/home/archive/logo/adventure.logo>That was my first commercially distributed program, on the C64 Terrapin Logo demo disk! It’s a simple adventure game that uses the Logo top level interpreter as a parser, and is meant to demonstrate some simple data modeling and list processing techniques. \n\nOn another note, here’s an intertwingled PseudoScientific Visualization of the ARPANET circa 1986, from a data file that Mike Brescia sent me. (Sorry the image maps don’t work, but the text links do work). \n\nMain index of all ARPA IMPs:\nhttp://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/index-large.html <http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/index-large.html>\n\nMIT-77 IMP:\nhttp://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/mit77-large.html <http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/mit77-large.html>\n\nNSA2 IMP:\nhttp://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/nsa2-large.html <http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/arpanet/nsa2-large.html>\n\n-Don\n\n"
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"body": "Don't worry, there will be! There's a checklist of things to demo near the top of this issue. But I won't do them all in a single session."
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"body": "@SimHacker, \r\nCool stuff! It's like those early ARPANET maps, only a zillion nodes instead of seven.\r\n\r\nBut isn't it a bit reduntant to display that an IMP is a neighbour of its own neighbour?"
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"body": "It works by mapping the frame buffer bitmap into the job.\r\n\r\nThere are 8 pages in a frame buffer. There are 576 pixels, or 36 PDP-11 16-bit words per line. The PDP-10 accesses two PDP-11 words per PDP-10 word. So on the PDP-11, there each line is 18 words with some bits unused."
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"body": "There are 8 pages in a frame buffer. There are 576 pixels, or 36 PDP-11 16-bit words per line. The PDP-10 accesses two PDP-11 words per PDP-10 word (left justified) through the Rubin 10-11 interface. So on the PDP-10, each line is 18 words with some bits unused.\r\n\r\nCharacters are 5x10 pixels, laid out 6x12 on the display. So there are 96x37 characters, with some lines unused at the bottom."
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"body": "Made by Xerox. Connected to an Alto running a program called Spruce.\r\n\r\nAccepts XGP scan files."
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"body": "Will accept text files, plot files (vector graphics), or scan files (bitmaps)."
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"created_at": "2018-01-25T09:16:52Z",
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"body": "See #427."
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"created_at": "2018-01-25T19:21:06Z",
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"body": "From @36bit:\r\n> The only thing I know of is the MDL105.EXE.1 from trailing-edge.\r\n> And it's not complete of course.\r\n> The package system and everything is gone. Plus the source.\r\n> It could run a Muddle zork, although the Muddle-based Zork was written for version 104 of the interpreter.\r\n> As I recall it has a warning that appears to \"report strange occurrences\" when running on the 105 version interpreter that trailing-edge has."
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"body": "Not that this source of Zork sources is ideal, but I do have printouts (on XGP printers) of all the MIT zork sources from sometime after the endgame was completed. If I had a Muddle interpreter, I might be persuaded to type in the source code (I don't imagine, but could be wrong, that OCR technology would get it right)."
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"body": "I guess that won't be necessary since I just saw this: https://github.com/PDP-10/zork. Sorry for not noticing that earlier."
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"created_at": "2018-01-25T20:07:44Z",
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"body": "Right. What's missing is the interpreter and/or compiler for ITS. There may be one for TOPS-20 available, but it's unknown whether it could ever run in only one section. See discussion above."
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"created_at": "2018-01-25T20:21:24Z",
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"body": "What about the effort by Hal Abelson to preserve backup tapes? Has anyone talked to him recently about that?"
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"created_at": "2018-01-25T20:45:11Z",
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"body": "Yes, see #154."
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T00:31:30Z",
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"body": "I have managed to find and compile a lot of macsyma, by the way. Don't have anything near working yet, but at least I'm able to make some progress. There are some sources that I haven't been able to find, but I don't (yet) know how critical they are. "
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"body": "Do you have a list of the missing ones? I can do some digging on my side."
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"body": "Excellent!"
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"body": "Here are the ones I haven't been able to locate.  The ones with \n<missing> and a filename are those for which the source is missing but \nwhere we have a FASL file.\n\n\nCFFK; APLOT2 >            <missing>\nCFFK; TEKPLT >            <missing>\nELLEN; PRIMER >            <missing>\nJPG; MEDIT >            <missing>\nLIBMAX; LMMAC >            <missing>\nLIBMAX; OPSHIN >        <missing> ./ai/libmax/opshin.fasl\nMAXSRC; AR >              <missing>\nMAXSRC; ARDS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ards.fasl\nMAXSRC; ARRAY >            <missing>\nMAXSRC; CHAR >            <missing>\nMAXSRC; DESCRI >        <missing>\nMAXSRC; ERMSGM >        <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ermsgm.fasl\nMAXSRC; H19 >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/h19.fasl\nMAXSRC; MTRACE >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\nMAXSRC; MTREE >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\nMAXSRC; OUTEX >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/outex.fasl\nMAXSRC; VT100 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/vt100.fasl\nPAULW; EEZ >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/eez.fasl\nPAULW; NEWFAC >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/newfac.fasl\nRAT; EZGCD >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ezgcd.fasl\nRAT; POIS2 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\nRAT; POIS3 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\nRAT; RATLAP >            <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ratlap.fasl\nRAT; RATPOI >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ratpoi.fasl\nTENSOR; ITENSR >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/itensr.fasl\nTEST; XBATCH >             <missing>\nTRANSL; LJOB >            <missing> ./ai/alan/ljob.74\nTRANSL; MCOMPI >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mcompi.fasl\nTRANSL; MTAGS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtags.fasl\nTRANSL; TRDEBG >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/trdebg.fasl\nWGD; MPRINT >              <missing>\nZZ; APROPO >            <missing>\n\n From looking at the maxerr; directory in the ai tapes, I can see that \nITS had later versions of most of the files that were on Alfred's \nmacsyma tape (from Symbolics).  This is interesting -- I would have \nthought that the Symbolics versions would have had greater version numbers.\n\nIn any case, I'm going to have a mixture of source/fasl files between \nthose files on the Symbolics (I'm assuming this is where that tape came \nfrom, Alfred) tape and those files from the ai/mc tapes.\n\nStill not at all clear that we have enough to get a macsyma working....\n\n-- Eric\n\n\n\nOn 01/25/2018 09:44 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:\n>\n> Do you have a list of the missing ones? I can do some digging on my side.\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub \n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/284#issuecomment-360690015>, or \n> mute the thread \n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-Y_RaMV1h18G92VBeNrSCTWTCw9drks5tOWZLgaJpZM4LQBm5>.\n>\n\n"
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"body": "One of the missing files: libmax; lmmac > causes tons of stuff to not \nload or compile. I need to find that one.\n\nIt appears to define the following:\n\n(DEFVAR LMMAC-FERROR-USE ±708\n(DEFVAR LMMAC-CHECK-ARG-USE ²072\n(DEFMACRO CHECK-ARG ²121\n(DEFMACRO FIRST ²618\n(DEFMACRO SECOND ²659\n(DEFMACRO THIRD ²700\n(DEFMACRO FOURTH ²744\n(DEFMACRO FIFTH ²786\n(DEFMACRO SIXTH ²835\n(DEFMACRO SEVENTH ²887\n(DEFMACRO REST1 ²938\n(DEFMACRO REST2 ²976\n(DEFMACRO REST3 ³015\n(DEFMACRO REST4 ³055\n(DEFMACRO /\u001C ³097\n(DEFMACRO /\u001D ³161\n(DEFMACRO NEQ ³228\n(DEFMACRO /\u001A ³268\n(DEFMACRO MAKE-LIST ³325\n(DEFMACRO AREF ³411\n(DEFMACRO ASET ³484\n(DEFMACRO MAKE-ARRAY ³586\n(DEFSETF AREF ³655\n(DEFMACRO EVERY ´220\n(DEFMACRO SOME ´579\n(DEFMACRO FSYMEVAL µ099\n(DEFMACRO FMAKUNBOUND µ279\n(DEFMACRO FBOUNDP µ594\n(DEFMACRO FSET µ638\n(DEFMACRO FSYMEVAL µ712\n(DEFMACRO FMAKUNBOUND µ763\n(DEFMACRO MAKE-STRING-FROM-SYMBOL ¶283\n(defmacro make-string-from-symbol ¶394\n(DEFMACRO MAKE-STRING-FROM-CHARS ¶525\n(defmacro array-dimension-n ¶907\n(DEFMACRO INTERNEDP ·776\n(DEFMACRO STRINGP ·907\n(DEFMACRO STRING-LENGTH ¸161\n(DEFMACRO STRING-EQUAL ¸214\n(DEFMACRO READ-FROM-STRING ¸278\n(DEFMACRO STRING-UPCASE ¸346\n(DEFMACRO STRING-DOWNCASE ¸456\n(DEFMACRO STRING-REVERSE ¸567\n(DEFMACRO STRING-NREVERSE ¸665\n(DEFMACRO MAKE-SYMBOL ¹140\n(DEFMACRO GET-PNAME ¹345\n\nSome of these, of course, are pretty easy to implement. Others, I'm not \nsure about. -- Eric\n\nOn 01/25/2018 11:40 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n>\n> Here are the ones I haven't been able to locate.  The ones with \n> <missing> and a filename are those for which the source is missing but \n> where we have a FASL file.\n>\n>\n> CFFK; APLOT2 >            <missing>\n> CFFK; TEKPLT >            <missing>\n> ELLEN; PRIMER >            <missing>\n> JPG; MEDIT >            <missing>\n> LIBMAX; LMMAC >            <missing>\n> LIBMAX; OPSHIN >        <missing> ./ai/libmax/opshin.fasl\n> MAXSRC; AR >              <missing>\n> MAXSRC; ARDS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ards.fasl\n> MAXSRC; ARRAY >            <missing>\n> MAXSRC; CHAR >            <missing>\n> MAXSRC; DESCRI >        <missing>\n> MAXSRC; ERMSGM >        <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ermsgm.fasl\n> MAXSRC; H19 >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/h19.fasl\n> MAXSRC; MTRACE >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\n> MAXSRC; MTREE >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\n> MAXSRC; OUTEX >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/outex.fasl\n> MAXSRC; VT100 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/vt100.fasl\n> PAULW; EEZ >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/eez.fasl\n> PAULW; NEWFAC >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/newfac.fasl\n> RAT; EZGCD >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ezgcd.fasl\n> RAT; POIS2 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\n> RAT; POIS3 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\n> RAT; RATLAP >            <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ratlap.fasl\n> RAT; RATPOI >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ratpoi.fasl\n> TENSOR; ITENSR >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/itensr.fasl\n> TEST; XBATCH >             <missing>\n> TRANSL; LJOB >            <missing> ./ai/alan/ljob.74\n> TRANSL; MCOMPI >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mcompi.fasl\n> TRANSL; MTAGS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtags.fasl\n> TRANSL; TRDEBG >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/trdebg.fasl\n> WGD; MPRINT >              <missing>\n> ZZ; APROPO >            <missing>\n>\n> From looking at the maxerr; directory in the ai tapes, I can see that \n> ITS had later versions of most of the files that were on Alfred's \n> macsyma tape (from Symbolics).  This is interesting -- I would have \n> thought that the Symbolics versions would have had greater version \n> numbers.\n>\n> In any case, I'm going to have a mixture of source/fasl files between \n> those files on the Symbolics (I'm assuming this is where that tape \n> came from, Alfred) tape and those files from the ai/mc tapes.\n>\n> Still not at all clear that we have enough to get a macsyma working....\n>\n> -- Eric\n>\n>\n>\n> On 01/25/2018 09:44 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:\n>>\n>> Do you have a list of the missing ones? I can do some digging on my side.\n>>\n>> —\n>> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub \n>> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/284#issuecomment-360690015>, or \n>> mute the thread \n>> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-Y_RaMV1h18G92VBeNrSCTWTCw9drks5tOWZLgaJpZM4LQBm5>.\n>>\n>\n\n"
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"body": "@b4, please keep an eye out for PDP-10 MACSYMA files. Especially from MIT."
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T08:23:04Z",
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"body": "It turns out that this might be ok (but not great) because we do have \nlmmac.fasl.  So this isn't the show-stopper I thought it was.\n\n-- Eric\n\n\nOn 01/26/2018 12:19 AM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n>\n> One of the missing files: libmax; lmmac > causes tons of stuff to not \n> load or compile. I need to find that one.\n>\n> It appears to define the following:\n>\n> (DEFVAR LMMAC-FERROR-USE ±708\n> (DEFVAR LMMAC-CHECK-ARG-USE ²072\n> (DEFMACRO CHECK-ARG ²121\n> (DEFMACRO FIRST ²618\n> (DEFMACRO SECOND ²659\n> (DEFMACRO THIRD ²700\n> (DEFMACRO FOURTH ²744\n> (DEFMACRO FIFTH ²786\n> (DEFMACRO SIXTH ²835\n> (DEFMACRO SEVENTH ²887\n> (DEFMACRO REST1 ²938\n> (DEFMACRO REST2 ²976\n> (DEFMACRO REST3 ³015\n> (DEFMACRO REST4 ³055\n> (DEFMACRO /\u001C ³097\n> (DEFMACRO /\u001D ³161\n> (DEFMACRO NEQ ³228\n> (DEFMACRO /\u001A ³268\n> (DEFMACRO MAKE-LIST ³325\n> (DEFMACRO AREF ³411\n> (DEFMACRO ASET ³484\n> (DEFMACRO MAKE-ARRAY ³586\n> (DEFSETF AREF ³655\n> (DEFMACRO EVERY ´220\n> (DEFMACRO SOME ´579\n> (DEFMACRO FSYMEVAL µ099\n> (DEFMACRO FMAKUNBOUND µ279\n> (DEFMACRO FBOUNDP µ594\n> (DEFMACRO FSET µ638\n> (DEFMACRO FSYMEVAL µ712\n> (DEFMACRO FMAKUNBOUND µ763\n> (DEFMACRO MAKE-STRING-FROM-SYMBOL ¶283\n> (defmacro make-string-from-symbol ¶394\n> (DEFMACRO MAKE-STRING-FROM-CHARS ¶525\n> (defmacro array-dimension-n ¶907\n> (DEFMACRO INTERNEDP ·776\n> (DEFMACRO STRINGP ·907\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-LENGTH ¸161\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-EQUAL ¸214\n> (DEFMACRO READ-FROM-STRING ¸278\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-UPCASE ¸346\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-DOWNCASE ¸456\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-REVERSE ¸567\n> (DEFMACRO STRING-NREVERSE ¸665\n> (DEFMACRO MAKE-SYMBOL ¹140\n> (DEFMACRO GET-PNAME ¹345\n>\n> Some of these, of course, are pretty easy to implement. Others, I'm \n> not sure about. -- Eric\n>\n> On 01/25/2018 11:40 PM, Eric Swenson wrote:\n>>\n>> Here are the ones I haven't been able to locate.  The ones with \n>> <missing> and a filename are those for which the source is missing \n>> but where we have a FASL file.\n>>\n>>\n>> CFFK; APLOT2 >            <missing>\n>> CFFK; TEKPLT >            <missing>\n>> ELLEN; PRIMER >            <missing>\n>> JPG; MEDIT >            <missing>\n>> LIBMAX; LMMAC >            <missing>\n>> LIBMAX; OPSHIN >        <missing> ./ai/libmax/opshin.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; AR >              <missing>\n>> MAXSRC; ARDS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ards.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; ARRAY >            <missing>\n>> MAXSRC; CHAR >            <missing>\n>> MAXSRC; DESCRI >        <missing>\n>> MAXSRC; ERMSGM >        <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ermsgm.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; H19 >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/h19.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; MTRACE >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; MTREE >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtrace.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; OUTEX >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/outex.fasl\n>> MAXSRC; VT100 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/vt100.fasl\n>> PAULW; EEZ >              <missing> ./ai/macsym/eez.fasl\n>> PAULW; NEWFAC >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/newfac.fasl\n>> RAT; EZGCD >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ezgcd.fasl\n>> RAT; POIS2 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\n>> RAT; POIS3 >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/pois2.fasl\n>> RAT; RATLAP >            <missing> ./ai/maxdmp/ratlap.fasl\n>> RAT; RATPOI >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/ratpoi.fasl\n>> TENSOR; ITENSR >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/itensr.fasl\n>> TEST; XBATCH >             <missing>\n>> TRANSL; LJOB >            <missing> ./ai/alan/ljob.74\n>> TRANSL; MCOMPI >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/mcompi.fasl\n>> TRANSL; MTAGS >            <missing> ./ai/macsym/mtags.fasl\n>> TRANSL; TRDEBG >        <missing> ./ai/macsym/trdebg.fasl\n>> WGD; MPRINT >              <missing>\n>> ZZ; APROPO >            <missing>\n>>\n>> From looking at the maxerr; directory in the ai tapes, I can see that \n>> ITS had later versions of most of the files that were on Alfred's \n>> macsyma tape (from Symbolics).  This is interesting -- I would have \n>> thought that the Symbolics versions would have had greater version \n>> numbers.\n>>\n>> In any case, I'm going to have a mixture of source/fasl files between \n>> those files on the Symbolics (I'm assuming this is where that tape \n>> came from, Alfred) tape and those files from the ai/mc tapes.\n>>\n>> Still not at all clear that we have enough to get a macsyma working....\n>>\n>> -- Eric\n>>\n>>\n>>\n>> On 01/25/2018 09:44 PM, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:\n>>>\n>>> Do you have a list of the missing ones? I can do some digging on my \n>>> side.\n>>>\n>>> —\n>>> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n>>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub \n>>> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/284#issuecomment-360690015>, \n>>> or mute the thread \n>>> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-Y_RaMV1h18G92VBeNrSCTWTCw9drks5tOWZLgaJpZM4LQBm5>.\n>>>\n>>\n>\n\n"
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"body": "@ewswenson1 could you please not quote the whole previous thread? :-) It makes it suuuper hard to read on small devices. "
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"body": "@ams stop tinkering with your phone and get yourself to a real computer. :-)"
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"body": "PDP-6 and 10 devices:\r\n![](http://aap.papnet.eu/screen/1516956926.png)"
},
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"body": "As best I can tell, I have one or two.\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\n> On Jan 26, 2018, at 00:21, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> @b4, please keep an eye out for PDP-10 MACSYMA files. Especially from MIT.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n"
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"body": "If you can't or won't use EMACS, TECO is your only option for editing.\r\n\r\nNote: all commands must be terminated by $$ to execute them.\r\n\r\n- ER*file*$@Y - load file\r\n- EIEE*file*$ - save file\r\n- *n*R - move cursor left\r\n- *n*C - move cursor right\r\n- 0L - beginning of line\r\n- :L - end of line\r\n- *n*L - beginning of *n*th line from the current position\r\n- I*text*$ - insert text\r\n- *n*D - delete *n* characters to the right\r\n- K - delete to end of line\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T12:08:39Z",
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"body": "@hansliss Any update on your BCPL stuff?"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T12:40:57Z",
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"body": "I'm not familiar enough with the details of executable files in T10/T20\nto understand exactly what's wrong, but after compiling all the lib\nsources for BCPL, I managed to compile a BCPL source file and produce an\nexecutable file, which seems to lack something vital (including any\nnumber of potential user errors on my part):\n\n@type test2.bcp\nget \"bcl:bcplib\"\n\nlet start () be\n$(\n        let foo = 0\n        while foo < 1000 do foo +:= 1\n        OUTPUT := CREATEFILE(\"foo.txt\")\n        writes(OUTPUT,\"*C*LHello World!*C*L\")\n        outs(\"*C*LHello World!*C*L\")\n$)\n\n@bcpl00\n*test2.bcp\nBCPL:  TEST2    400053/2        33%\n*^Z\nEXIT\n@load test2\nLINK:   Loading\n@save test2\n TEST2.EXE.1 Saved\n@test2.exe.1\n\n?BCLCGP: cannot get pages for default NEWVEC region\n\nEXIT\n\nThat's where I gave up, for now.\n\n/Hans\n\nOn 2018-01-26 13:08, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:\n>\n> @hansliss <https://github.com/hansliss> Any update on your BCPL stuff?\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/416#issuecomment-360768908>, or\n> mute the thread\n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABDuEBLyc2E0K8c1OSvd54fFCDpBvnfGks5tOcBHgaJpZM4LioxW>.\n>\n\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T18:05:42Z",
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"body": "David Moon:\r\n> MIT-AI also had a device, which was heavily used for many years although it never worked reliably, that mapped portions of the pdp10's address space into eight pdp-11 Unibuses. The pdp-11's in question (they weren't all real pdp-11's; one was a Lisp machine and one was a Chess machine) were scattered around the lab; some were I/O controllers for the pdp-10, while others were independent machines that just used this device as a high-speed link to the timesharing system. The effect of this hardware was to make pdp-11 memory look like extremely slow pdp-10 memory with the right-hand 4 bits of each word missing. A user program in the timesharing system could issue a system call to map an arbitrary portion of an arbitrary pdp-11's memory into its virtual address space and could then do whatever it wanted to it. These references were mapped through the usual virtual-to-physical page map and then again through a pdp-10-physical to pdp-11-physical page map located inside the 10/11 interface device.\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T18:31:37Z",
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"body": "I folded #618 into this."
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T18:51:23Z",
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"body": "It could be that it must be run with DDT, just like SALV."
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"body": "I will try these tests tomorrow... some are going to fail since I don't implement the TLB registers the same as the Pager did. "
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"body": "I should also say this is with Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark.)\r\nLars mentioned in the IRC channel that it worked for him on 14.04 and 16.04 although I could not duplicate that success on 14.04."
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"body": "There is a timeout defined in build.tcl (`set timeout 100`). I had to increase it when i built on a raspi once."
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"body": "Hello @macrakis,\r\n\r\nI read you suggested there should be a video demoing ITS made before the KL10 MIT-MC died. Was such a video made?\r\n\r\nRegards,\r\nLars"
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"body": "​I'm not aware of one, sorry.​\n\nOn Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 5:12 PM, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com>\nwrote:\n\n> Hello @macrakis <https://github.com/macrakis>,\n>\n> I read you suggested there should be a video demoing ITS made before the\n> KL10 MIT-MC died. Was such a video made?\n>\n> Regards,\n> Lars\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/604#issuecomment-360918790>, or mute\n> the thread\n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAzvCrbNC7LofD3OiUIgCi-q3jQan2ccks5tOk3bgaJpZM4RSqL5>\n> .\n>\n"
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"body": "Thanks. I added an extra 0 to that, setting the timeout to 1000. The outcome was the same although it took longer to get there.\r\n\r\nI also tried replacing expect \"EINIT\" with sleep 75 to see if that might get beyond this stage but it still timed out.\r\n\r\nI also tried setting it to expect \"IT IS NOW\" in case it's looking just at the last line but that, too, did not make a difference. It still times out."
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T22:48:47Z",
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"body": "I think we need some expect/TCL debugging to see what's really going on. I don't have such expertise myself."
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"body": "https://wiki.tcl.tk/3173 suggests to invoke expect with -d.\r\n\r\nOther hints are to use log_file, log_user, and exp_internal.\r\n\r\nSome more here: http://wiki.tcl.tk/473#pagetoce1b59b05"
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"body": "Oh yes, that was helpful. Doing using -d shows that it is not hanging over EINIT as originally thought but it's waiting for the next thing in build.tcl. It is timing out waiting for :EJ which never appears.\r\n\r\nexpect: does \" >\\r\\nIT IS NOW 3:09:15 PM EST, FRIDAY, JAN 26,20\" (spawn_id exp10) match exact string \":EJ\"? no\r\nexpect: timed out\r\n\r\nThe last command timed out.\r\nmake: *** [out/rp0.dsk] Error 1\r\nMakefile:31: recipe for target 'out/rp0.dsk' failed"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T23:28:27Z",
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"body": "In that case, I wonder why your build doesn't generate the `-> DSK` messages. This is what it looks like when I build:\r\n\r\n```\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; BUFFER >\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; CRL >\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; VARS >\r\n -> DSK: EMACS; [PURE] >\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; PURIFY >\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; CCL >\r\n -> DSK: EMACS; [PRFY] >\r\nCompressing file DSK: EMACS1; EINIT >\r\n -> DSK: EMACS; EINIT ^Q:EJ\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-26T23:29:47Z",
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"body": "Maybe we can look for `>` instead of `:EJ`."
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"body": "Also, https://lm-3.github.io/NFILE.html (same as RFC 1073)."
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"body": "I wasn't able to find any of those file in my stash. But rewriting the `libmax; lmmac` file shouldn't be to complicated."
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"body": "Yeah, I can guess what most of those macros do. In the mean time, I’m using the FASL. We’ll probably find we need to reconstruct a bunch of source from FASL files."
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"created_at": "2018-01-27T18:50:40Z",
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"body": "@b4 Were you able to locate any of the missing Macsyma files I referenced earlier in this thread?"
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"body": "(FILECREATED \"23-OCT-79 23:20:23\" ^F^D<NEWLISP>LMMAC.;2^F^A 37590\r\n\r\nNot looking like I have any."
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T00:10:33Z",
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"body": "Have we been able to build this and include it in the ITS build?"
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"body": "I haven't tried yet, because I've been busy tracking down a problem using the TM10A tape controller with KA ITS.\r\n\r\nBut I'd like to watch this video and try to install ADVENT. I assume it details how to use the Fortran compiler too. Ultimately, I'd like Fortran installed from sources as well. I have tried to check with @philbudne about that."
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T17:32:45Z",
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"body": "The video uses the old \"F40\" compiler: I've never seen sources for it.\nI worked on FORTRAN-10/20 (\"F10\"). The ITS DECSYS directory had a\nVERY early version (1?).\n\nSo there's hardly any historic basis for installing (let alone\nbuilding) any \"current\" version of F10 on ITS. I wouldn't be at all\nsurprised if FOROTS (the FORTRAN run time library) used system calls\nnot supported by DECUUO. DECSYS; contained binaries that were old and\ncold back in the 1980s!!!!\n\nSources for F10 probably come with a .BAT file (batch script)\nto build it. Would you try to bring up GALAXY (the TOPS-10/20\nSpooling system, which ran batch jobs) on ITS???? [kidding!]\n\nI DID write the DECSYS version of F10 to a tape, and might have\noffered an image of it up already.....\n\nphil\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T18:00:40Z",
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"body": "Well, I've made a lot of progress, but may have hit a brick wall. I need to find MAXSRC; ERMSGM > and JPG; MEDIT >. There are other missing files, but these have blocked me so far.\r\n\r\nBy the way, I found that ALJABR; COMPLR > is the LISP source that provides the steps for building Macsyma. Simply start COMPLR, load it, and run (MSCOMP). Unfortunately, that bombs due to missing sources (two above are examples). You can $P to continue, but, of course, you won't get a working Macsyma. \r\n\r\nAlso, you won't succeed just doing the above unless you have a bunch of files in the right places and some of them compiled already. \r\n\r\nI'll keep hacking, but it may be that we'll be stuck if we don't either fine the missing sources or reconstruct them. Some of these have FASL files, so we can just put the FASL files in the right places and if we have enough sources and FASL files, we might be able to run Macsyma -- that is my current effort. I'll let you know how it goes."
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"body": "Can we backport the code from DOE Macsyma?"
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"body": "That will be my tact of last resort. I have the first commit to the sourceforge repo of MAXIMA, which shows many filenames matching those from ITS Macsyma. Of course, the contents have been converted to Common Lisp, but one could, in theory, backport to MacLisp.\r\n\r\nIt would sure be nice if we could uncover the original ITS Macsyma that DOE started with...."
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T19:24:05Z",
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"body": "Maybe the CSAIL tape archive people can dig up something?"
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T19:24:46Z",
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"body": "Where is that?"
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"body": "Well, there's this: http://people.csail.mit.edu/devon/archive/\r\n\r\nAnd I know Pandora Berman and Hal Abelson are more or less involved. Also Brad Parker has been able to extract file files from MIT in the past.\r\n\r\nBut we have been in touch with all of the above, and it's not clear how much there is or how to get at it."
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"body": "Is there anything of interest here? \r\nftp://ftp.ultimate.com/pdp10/maclisp/\r\n\r\nI'm not sure what versions 804 or 861 are, or what version we have."
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"created_at": "2018-01-28T19:57:00Z",
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"body": "Thanks Phil. No, building F10 with GALAXY is outside any reasonable scope for this."
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"body": "There are (digital) sources around for the \"machine-independent\" Muddle compilers, and for the various runtimes for them (20, Vax, Mac A/UX)--even some of the libraries. That archive does not, for reasons that are beyond my comprehension, include the interpreter sources, though I just heard that clr might have a listing.\r\nWhat one would really like, of course, is the Midas sources for the original Muddle interpreter. Those are, as far as I know, nowhere."
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"body": "And no one even has printouts?"
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"created_at": "2018-01-29T04:09:27Z",
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"body": "I know that I do not. Quite sure Chris would’ve mentioned them if he had them, but he has a big attic, so who knows.\r\n\r\n\r\nFrom: Eric Swenson [mailto:notifications@github.com]\r\nSent: Sunday, 28 January, 2018 23:05\r\nTo: PDP-10/its <its@noreply.github.com>\r\nCc: Anderson, Timothy A. <taa@stresearch.com>; Mention <mention@noreply.github.com>\r\nSubject: Re: [PDP-10/its] Bring Zork back home (#12)\r\n\r\n\r\nAnd no one even has printouts?\r\n\r\n—\r\nYou are receiving this because you were mentioned.\r\nReply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/12#issuecomment-361134990>, or mute the thread<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABnTXTwZEkwFnkoY2xmhsg6Ekq2e-qD_ks5tPUN0gaJpZM4K4HNL>.\r\n"
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"body": "Such a shame. I had printouts of the muddle sources for years before my wife strongly encouraged me to get rid of it all! I would gladly type them all back in now!"
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"body": "Last year we managed to get Ron Schnell's original Maclisp game DUNNET from MIT. I'm not sure how or where exactly, but I think a key part was that Ron asked for it himself.\r\n\r\nI'm guessing there were regular backups made from the DM PDP-10, but I'm not sure if they have been preserved or read back. But apparenly that has been the case for some other MIT DEC machines, so maybe."
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"body": "Looking back at the email conversation, it was Brad Parker who had access to MIT-OZ backups (maybe more?). Ron's file was from late 1982."
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"body": "Confimed: if I `set pd off` before starting ITS, the bugpause doesn't appear."
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"body": "This is apparently caused by some CONI APR bit being set when the null job is executing."
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"body": "@rcornwell, I'd like to add some examinable registers to the simulator CPU device."
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"body": "Scratch that, I'll make do with `set cpu debug=coni`.\r\n\r\nI see that the APR bits went from 3007 to 22007 when I resumed from the simulator console. So it looks like MEM PROT turned on."
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"body": "We appear to have a much later version of *lisp.154 than the midas source for MacLisp in the 861 tarball. The copyright on 861 is 1979. The copyright on *lisp.154 is 1981. Our Maclisp claims to be version 2154 (this might be because we built it, but that suggests that the sources we got were originally for 2153 (or thereabouts). I suspect 861 is really version 861 -- quite a bit older than 2153."
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"body": "There do appear to be some lisp sources in the lisp and lisp2 tarballs that we don't have. Not sure how old they are. However, if we find we're missing something important, these two tarballs might be a way of getting at least *some* version of them. One example -- apropos. I don't think we have the source for this -- but it is in the lisp.tar.gz tarball. "
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"body": "Hello @philbudne, \r\n\r\nDo you remember where (or when) these tarballs came from? \r\n ftp://ftp.ultimate.com/pdp10/maclisp/"
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"created_at": "2018-01-29T17:25:14Z",
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"body": "Lyle Bickley has looked into running SHRDLU in ITS. He'd like it to be able to display graphics on a 340 display."
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"body": "The maclsp* tarballs probably came from files from Stevens Tech,\npossibly sent via tape by JONL.\n\nI think the lisp* tarballs are of files FTP'ed from a public access\nXKL Toad system system (possibly Paul Allen's PDP Planet, which\npredated LCM).\n\nphil\n"
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"created_at": "2018-01-30T06:09:09Z",
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"body": "People, I'd like some input here. Thanks!"
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"created_at": "2018-01-30T06:10:13Z",
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"body": "@philbudne, these short guides might be useful to you. Or are they too basic?"
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"body": "I would argue that they are not basic enough, at least for new users. For example, the DDT commands are explained, but it is not explained how you actually use it if you want to debug your own software."
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"body": "That's a fair point.\r\n\r\nThe intended audience is people who do know how to debug programs, just not the DDT commands."
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"created_at": "2018-01-30T06:38:05Z",
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"body": "For me, too basic. I used EMACS and MIDAS extensively on TOPS-20 (and\nMIDAS on TOPS-10 as well). I need to learn how to assemble and boot\nan ITS with support for the 340 enabled. I was an ITS turist, but\nthat didn't include doing sys admin stuff!\n\nLooks like it's embedded (with LOTS and LOTS of stuff) in\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/build/build.tcl\n"
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"body": "Get @rcornwell's KA10 simulator: http://github.com/rcornwell/sims. The tape support is in flux. At this moment the best bet is to edit the penultimate line in `mt_srv` to `sim_activate(uptr, 800);`. Then `make ka10`."
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"body": "Get the ka10 branch from http://github.com/PDP-10/its. For now, the its repository and the sims repository need to sit side by side.\r\n\r\nAlso get the subrepositories. Either `git clone --recursive`, or `git submodule update --init`.\r\n\r\nTo build ITS from scratch, type `make all`. **This will not work yet**. Also, just loading all source files from tape takes around 15 minutes.\r\n\r\nI have put prebuilt disk images online."
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"body": "To assemble ITS with 340 support, edit SYSTEM; CONFIG >. Go to the section for ML and add `DEFOPT 340P==1`. Assemble ITS for ML. Do the dumping thing in DSKDMP or timesharing DDT."
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"following_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/following{/other_user}",
"gists_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/gists{/gist_id}",
"starred_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/starred{/owner}{/repo}",
"subscriptions_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/subscriptions",
"organizations_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/orgs",
"repos_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/repos",
"events_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/events{/privacy}",
"received_events_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/received_events",
"type": "User",
"site_admin": false
},
"created_at": "2018-01-30T07:05:56Z",
"updated_at": "2018-01-30T07:05:56Z",
"author_association": "MEMBER",
"body": "At this point TECO, and by extension EMACS, doesn't work which makes it hard to do work inside ITS."
},
{
"url": "https://api.github.com/repos/PDP-10/its/issues/comments/361504646",
"html_url": "https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/644#issuecomment-361504646",
"issue_url": "https://api.github.com/repos/PDP-10/its/issues/644",
"id": 361504646,
"node_id": "MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDM2MTUwNDY0Ng==",
"user": {
"login": "larsbrinkhoff",
"id": 775050,
"node_id": "MDQ6VXNlcjc3NTA1MA==",
"avatar_url": "https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/775050?v=4",
"gravatar_id": "",
"url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff",
"html_url": "https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff",
"followers_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/followers",
"following_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/following{/other_user}",
"gists_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/gists{/gist_id}",
"starred_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/starred{/owner}{/repo}",
"subscriptions_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/subscriptions",
"organizations_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/orgs",
"repos_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/repos",
"events_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/events{/privacy}",
"received_events_url": "https://api.github.com/users/larsbrinkhoff/received_events",
"type": "User",
"site_admin": false
},
"created_at": "2018-01-30T07:51:52Z",
"updated_at": "2018-01-30T08:10:05Z",
"author_association": "MEMBER",
"body": "Dumping ITS in DSKDMP:\r\n\r\n```\r\nL$ddt\r\nT$its bin\r\n$U\r\nM$salv bin\r\nD$nits\r\n```\r\n\r\nDumping ITS in timesharing DDT:\r\n\r\n```\r\nits$J\r\n$1L .; @ ddt\r\n$$1L .; salv bin\r\n$$L .; its bin\r\n$Y .; @ nits\r\n:kill\r\n```\r\n\r\nFile names may differ."
}
]
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