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Lars Brinkhoff 7891748263 Update saved GitHub data.
2018-06-07 17:44:24 +02:00

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"body": "Yup, that’s Tops-20 (obviously, because of the version numbers) old Muddle source. Where the heck did you find it?\r\n -ta\r\n\r\n\r\nFrom: Lars Brinkhoff [mailto:notifications@github.com]\r\nSent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 7:51 AM\r\nTo: PDP-10/its <its@noreply.github.com>\r\nCc: Anderson, Timothy A. <taa@stresearch.com>; Mention <mention@noreply.github.com>\r\nSubject: Re: [PDP-10/its] Muddle (#665)\r\n\r\n\r\n“Interpreter” meaning what files, exactly?\r\n\r\nHere's the file list. You can probably tell better than me exactly what it is.\r\n\r\nagc.bin.16 fopen.bin.22 mdl106.sec.1 readch.mid.212\r\n\r\nagc.bin.21 fopen.mid.35 mdl106.sec.2 readch.mid.213\r\n\r\nagc.mid.131 fopen.mid.54 mdl106.sgc.1 readch.mid.214\r\n\r\nagc.mid.139 fopen.mid.56 mdl106.sgc.2 reader.bin.10\r\n\r\nagc.mid.140 fopen.mid.57 mdl106.symbols.1 reader.mid.353\r\n\r\nagc.mid.141 fopen.mid.58 mdl106.symbols.2 reader.mid.355\r\n\r\nagcmrk.bin.3 fopen.mid.59 mdlxxx.exe.1 reader.mid.356\r\n\r\nagcmrk.mid.1 fopen.mid.60 mdlxxx.exe.2 reader.mid.357\r\n\r\namsgc.bin.12 fopen.mid.61 mdlxxx.symbols.1 save.bin.13\r\n\r\namsgc.mid.107 fopen.mid.62 midas.bin.3 save.bin.9\r\n\r\namsgc.mid.108 gcgdgl.mud.1 midas.exe.5 save.mid.169\r\n\r\namsgc.mid.109 gcgdgl.nbin.1 midas.symbols.2 save.mid.174\r\n\r\namsgc.mid.110 gcgld.mud.1 mud105.stink.10 save.mid.175\r\n\r\narith.bin.4 gchack.bin.2 muddle.mid.346 save.mid.176\r\n\r\narith.mid.94 gchack.bin.3 mudex.bin.34 secagc.bin.32\r\n\r\nassem.all.7 gchack.mid.45 mudex.bin.38 secagc.mid.80\r\n\r\natomhk.bin.6 gchack.mid.46 mudex.mid.177 secagc.mid.81\r\n\r\natomhk.bin.7 initm.bin.17 mudex.mid.183 second.cmd.10\r\n\r\natomhk.mid.144 initm.mid.371 mudits.mcr130.1 specs.bin.7\r\n\r\natomhk.mid.149 initm.mid.373 mudits.mid.131 specs.mid.110\r\n\r\natomhk.mid.150 interr.bin.28 mudsqu.bin.6 specs.mid.111\r\n\r\nbufmod.bin.2 interr.bin.30 mudsqu.mcr025.1 stbuil.bin.10\r\n\r\nbufmod.mid.4 interr.mid.419 mudsqu.mid.28 stbuil.mid.15\r\n\r\nchess.script.1 interr.mid.425 mudxxx.stink.2 stbuil.mid.16\r\n\r\nchkdcl.mud.2 ipc.bin.2 mymode.teco.1 stbuil.mid.17\r\n\r\nchkdcl.nbin.2 ipc.mid.19 nfopen.bin.2 stbuil.mid.18\r\n\r\n_chkdcl.temp.1 ldgc.bin.11 nfopen.mid.4 stbuil.mid.19\r\n\r\n_clr.ev.1 ldgc.mid.100 nfree.bin.5 stbuil.mid.20\r\n\r\n_clr.opcodes.1 main.bin.9 nfree.mcr052.1 stenex.mid.11\r\n\r\n_clr.opcodes.2 main.mid.350 nfree.mid.53 stink.exe.13\r\n\r\n_clr.rmode.1 main.mid.351 oreadch.mid.208 stink.mid.1\r\n\r\nconst.bin.4 main.mid.352 primit.bin.5 stink.symbols.4\r\n\r\nconst.mid.5 mappur.bin.34 primit.mid.315 symbol.cmd.4\r\n\r\ncore.bin.4 mappur.bin.37 primit.mid.316 tmudv.bin.1\r\n\r\ncore.mid.13 mappur.mid.146 print.bin.11 tmudv.mid.1\r\n\r\ncreate.bin.3 mappur.mid.159 print.bin.9 txpure.bin.2\r\n\r\ncreate.mid.40 mappur.mid.160 print.mid.340 txpure.mid.3\r\n\r\ndecl.bin.3 mappur.mid.161 print.mid.346 utilit.bin.15\r\n\r\ndecl.mid.102 mappur.mid.162 pure.bin.5 utilit.bin.16\r\n\r\ndecl.mid.103 maps.bin.2 pure.mid.15 utilit.mid.103\r\n\r\necagc.bin.1 maps.mid.29 putget.bin.3 utilit.mid.104\r\n\r\neval.bin.13 mdl106.agc.1 putget.mid.51 utilit.mid.105\r\n\r\neval.bin.14 mdl106.agc.2 pxcore.bin.2 uuoh.bin.23\r\n\r\neval.mid.122 mdl106.dec.1 pxcore.mid.9 uuoh.bin.25\r\n\r\neval.mid.123 mdl106.dec.2 readch.bin.12 uuoh.mid.179\r\n\r\neval.mid.124 mdl106.exe.2 readch.bin.16 uuoh.mid.181\r\n\r\neval.mid.125 mdl106.exe.3 readch.mid.206 uuoh.mid.182\r\n\r\nfirst.cmd.2 mdl106.exe.4 readch.mid.210 uuoh.mid.183\r\n\r\nfopen.bin.16 mdl106.exe.5 readch.mid.211 x.x.3\r\n\r\n—\r\nYou are receiving this because you were mentioned.\r\nReply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/665#issuecomment-365257689>, or mute the thread<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABnTXZKVzYcaFgiBB_NBTiP_VCwzAJGnks5tUYU0gaJpZM4SDl0R>.\r\n"
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"body": "Why not include it in ITS build?"
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"created_at": "2018-02-13T15:40:10Z",
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"body": "Phil B mentioned something about runnning build scripts with GALAXY. I thought it sounded like it wouldn't quite be worth the trouble."
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"body": "Also had to increase the timeout for the final dump."
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"body": "No, STINK isn't very useful on the MINSYS tape. It's just that it's in the `.` directory, and all of that is included in MINSYS."
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"body": "Now I see the value of standalone STINK from other pull request. I didn’t see standalone MIDAS when I commented on the other PR."
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"body": "Actually, now that you’ve included standalone Midas, I see the value of TECO and stink."
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"created_at": "2018-02-13T19:26:01Z",
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"body": "> Another data point: we had to set the interval between magtape interrupts to about 500 units, or else ITS couldn't keep up with the interrupt rate.\n\nYes, I saw the same thing with the display: If the interrupt interval\nis too small the host (PDP-10) doesn't get ANYTHING (building the\ndisplay lists) before being interrupted to feed the display another\nword from the display lists!\n\nI use the svc routine to delay the \"feed me\" interrupt as well as age\nthe display. Still trying to tune things.... I may finally need to\nlearn more about SIMH event internals!\n\nFWIW, from manual DEC-10-XSRMA-A-D\n\np 1-13, march 1976; (also p D-11 feb 1975)\n\n read write cycle mod+ size\n161 core 2.5 .49 4.7 2.69 16K\n163 core .94 .49 1.8 1.33 16K\n164/MB10 .60# .20# 1.65# .97 16K\nMA10 core .61 .20 1.00 .57 16K\nMD10 core .83 .33 1.8 1.23 32-128K\nME10 core .61 .20 1.0 .65 16K\nMF10 core .61 .20 1.0 .65 32K,64K\nMG10 core .67 .23 1.0 32K-128K\nKA10 FM .21 .21\nKI10 FM .28 .0\nKL10 FM .12 .08\nKL10 cache .16 .12\n# add .1 in a multiprocessor system\n\np D-11 feb 1975\nJFCL = .27us\nBLKO = .6us + DATAO\nDATAO = .12 + 2.69\navg IMUL = 7.51\navg FMP = 8.21\n\n(the next appendix has the differences between PDP-6/KA10/KI10 that I\nsummarized in a usenet post)\n"
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"body": "Keep me posted as you get sample code working. I would be interested in testing it and seeing how you have implemented. I plan eventually to add in full support for the PDP6 to my simulator. The current simulator will not boot with DTBOOT. I can send you a blank tape with it installed if you want one."
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"body": "I've been implementing the \"Type 344\" PDP-6 interface described in\nhttp://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/graphics/H-340_Type_340_Precision_Incremental_CRT_System_Nov64.pdf\nwhich does not read 340 control words out of core (it's fed them two\nat a time via DATAO/BLKO), and corresponds EXACTLY to what the ITS\n& SPCWAR code expects (which makes sense if the display came with the\nPDP-6). It will request PIs on two different channels, one for\n\"special conditions\" and the other for data (typically serviced by a\nBLKO in low core).\n\nI've *JUST* been reading VBCSER.MAC from TOPS-10 6.03 for the \"VB10C\" at\nhttp://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/dec-10-omona-u-mc9/01/vbcser.mac.html\nWhich appears as two I/O devices the first has CONO bits that are\nsomewhat different from the above: only one PI chan (and resume and\nclear flags bits in place of the second PI chan), and an additional\nbit for \"lock display out of memory\" and there is a new CONI bit for\n\"illegal addr\". The second I/O device (at 134) DATAO sets protect/base\naddresses, and DATAI reads back the current display address.\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T13:35:07Z",
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"body": "I'm doing this. Almost done."
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"body": "@jar398 Sorry, this. \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/lars/kermit/src/math/common.88"
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"body": "Yup. Same file."
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T17:36:19Z",
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"body": "Oops, forgot to add to build script. Coming up.\r\n\r\nThis new ARCDEV 66 builds to an identical binary, except the metadata parts."
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T17:37:14Z",
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"body": "Very nice! What are some examples of old-format archives that we have?\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T17:43:48Z",
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"body": "These: \r\nAI: BAWDEN; AR69 SPCWAR \r\nAI: KSC; AR1 TIMER \r\nAI: KSC; AR2 HAKPRG \r\nAI: MOON; ARC.D'TRMF\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T17:53:03Z",
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"body": "Note that ARCDEV 23 calls the signature word 777777777777 the new format. So presumably there could be four formats:\r\n\r\n- New: ARC!!1\r\n- Old: ARC!!!\r\n- Older: 777777777777\r\n- Ancient: ?\r\n"
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"body": "I better save this somewhere. The old OARDV BIN has no information which source it was built from. But there's this:\r\n\r\n> Date: 29 February 1984 18:56-EST\r\n> From: Kent M Pitman <KMP @ MIT-MC>\r\n> To: BUG-ITS @ MIT-MC\r\n> \r\n> I spoke with CStacy on the phone and he told me some bits I didn't have.\r\n> \r\n> He saved the old arc device as DEVICE;OLD ARCDEV. It was built from\r\n> AI: SYSENG; ARCDEV 66, which is earlier than the oldest source (68) on\r\n> MC: SYSENG; ... the implication being that MC: SYSENG; ARCDEV 68,\r\n> although it has been around for 5 years, has never been compiled and/or\r\n> tested.\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-14T20:24:54Z",
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"body": "There, source code found.\r\n\r\nI could not figure out a way to make Generate Library write out to EMACS; [RMAI] >."
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"body": "Apparently it *is* necessary to double-ALTMODE. Or else the build script won't work. Don't know why."
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"body": "Amazing. A flood of memories...\n\n> On Feb 14, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> @jar398 Does this look familiar?\n> https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/lars/kermit/src/math/common.12\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "I see there used to be a .; @ PT which probably is this program. The binary has timestamps from as early as 1973, so that would be before the KL port.\r\n\r\n@rcornwell have you been able to run this? Does it need DDT to be loaded first?"
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"body": "@philbudne I can't hold off my questions anymore...\r\n\r\nI'm so curious to test this! Is there anything available?\r\n\r\nDid you get NTS DDT to do anything useful with the display? Have you tested anything other than Spacewar?"
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"body": "I have now made a branch which adds the Spacewar files and builds the standalone and timesharing versions. Would like to test before submitting a pull request.\r\n\r\nThere are three versions: SPCWAR 163, SPCWAR 164, and NEWWAR 164. I checked NEWWAR against SPCWAR 164 and the former indeed seems newer. If it works, I'd like to dub it SPCWAR 165 and throw out the older files.\r\n\r\nThere's also a TVWAR 20 for the Knight TV, but we can't test that yet. I'm not sure it's finished. There's only one bitmap in it. It also wants to open some data files in other directories which we don't have."
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"body": "I see the TS version executes an CONO instruction at GO+2.\r\n\r\n CONO WCNSLS,40 ; enable spacewar consoles\r\n\r\nI get an ILOPR here. ITS has the ability to catch user I/O instructions and allow them to go through (see AUIOT in SYSTEM; ITS >), so I don't know why it doesn't work."
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"body": "Yes I have gotten it to run, there is no need to run DDT. I am getting some errors in the checking but have not had time to trace them down."
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"created_at": "2018-02-15T15:12:59Z",
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"body": "If USERIO flag is set in the Flags, the CONO will execute directly."
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"body": "I guess the authors would have been using terminals with the ISO 646 Swedish variant characters, so feeding it through `tr '\\304\\305\\326\\344\\345\\366' '[]\\\\{}|'` should be period-appropriate.\r\n\r\nAuthor Kimmo Eriksson's site has a version with that character set (but also with line-wrapping damage): http://kimmoeriksson.se/stugan/STUGA.txt\r\n\r\nI suppose it'd be possible to backport Johan Ottosson's English translation of the Inform 6 port of this game to the BASIC code..."
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"body": "Right, but I don't think it is set. ITS has a system call .IOTLSR to set the flag, but it's not used by SPCWAR.\r\n\r\nITS will execute the I/O instruction anyway on behalf of the user job, if it think's it's a safe operation."
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"body": "I didn't get anywhere with exec DDT built for display (kept outputting\nspaces and/or newlines on the TTY console), and I switched to\nstand-alone spcwar.rim when you built it for me, and haven't gone back\nto ITS yet.\n\nI've just forked the sims repo and pushed the cleaned up to branch\nmit340 of https://github.com/philbudne/sims\n\nHopefully I've gotten the spacewar switches sorted out. I finally\ngave in and straightened it out doing using an idiom common in PDP-10\nprogramming, translated to C. See spacewar_switches in\ndisplay/display.h\n\n"
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"body": "Code looks pretty good. I can copy the display directory and update the SCP tree if you want."
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"body": "Cool, thanks! To build it, I added `TYPE340=y` to the make command line."
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"body": "I can submit a PR if that makes it easier...\n\nphil\n"
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"body": "I am trying to keep changes to SCP and my sim separate. When the simulator is ready to move to the main simH tree, I will run a git command to extract all the changes for the KA10 tree and apply them to a branch on SimH, then Mark will merge it up. Remember no tabs and dos format files.\r\n\r\nWhen you are happy with the changes, you can move them to the master branch and submit a pull request."
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"created_at": "2018-02-15T23:12:48Z",
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"body": "I pushed out a new version of my sims tree with display added. Please redo your pull request with latest version. Also all commit messages MUST start with KA10:! "
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"body": "There are many directories with Scheme implementations. These have timestamps from 1978.\r\n\r\nOSCHEM; #EVAL 13 \r\nOSCHEM; CHIP 17 \r\nOSCHEM; CPSEVA 1 \r\nOSCHEM; DOCUME 89 \r\nOSCHEM; LI 14 \r\nOSCHEM; META 43 \r\nOSCHEM; MHACKS 9 \r\nOSCHEM; MSCHSY 9 \r\nOSCHEM; MSCHSY (INIT)\r\nOSCHEM; NSCHSY 77 \r\nOSCHEM; NSCHSY (INIT)\r\nOSCHEM; NSCLRC 70 \r\nOSCHEM; SCHEME TEST \r\nOSCHEM; SCHSYS 17 \r\nOSCHEM; SCHSYS (INIT)\r\nOSCHEM; THETA 4 \r\n\r\nThere's a similar set of files in SCHEME. The file versions are generally higher."
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"body": "Fixed by #668 "
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"body": "Fixed in #667"
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"body": "First attempt to assemble:\r\n\r\n```\r\nAUXO+1 6435 0. 1-001 DECTS Undefined in IFE\r\nAUXO+1 6435 0. 1-037 DSPLY Undefined in IFN\r\nCHESS2\r\nTTYO3+4 1160 0. 1-249 TVCR Undefined\r\nDB:OCDIS 21 CHPROG;\r\nAUXO+1 6435 0. 1-001 DECTS Undefined in IFE\r\nAUXO+1 6435 0. 1-037 DSPLY Undefined in IFN\r\nDB:CHESS2 614 RG;\r\nGO1+3 6454 0. 2-152 TVDINI Undefined\r\nRESET+1 6457 0. 2-156 DBRD Undefined\r\nPJUMP+10 6500 0. 2-171 DBRD Undefined in literal\r\nPJUMP+16 6506 0. 2-174 INCD Undefined in literal\r\nMR3+1 7201 0. 2-474 INCD Undefined\r\nTAKBAC+3 7206 0. 2-480 INCD Undefined\r\nSETP+10 7222 0. 2-493 DSQ2 Undefined\r\nSETP+11 7223 0. 2-494 DSQ2 Undefined\r\nSETP+12 7224 0. 2-494 DBRD Undefined\r\nLOOK01+4 21401 0. 3-019 INCD Undefined\r\nLKRT2+23 22001 0. 3-273 INCD Undefined\r\nLOOKR2+6 22010 0. 3-279 TVCR Undefined\r\nRUND1+1 22524 0. 3-305 INCD Undefined\r\n"
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"body": "I have looked closer at the code, and I see nothing for the 340 display.\r\n\r\nSent an email to Krakauer."
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"body": "It's actually two separate chess programs. RG; CHESS2 614, and CHPROG; OCM 470.\r\n\r\nI have built CHESS2 for both timesharing and standalone. I disabled the use of a Knight TV display.\r\n\r\nI have built OCM for timesharing only. It should run standalone too, but so far I haven't figured out how to use it. CHESS2 has a friendly help screen, but OCM doesn't. ^L does a redisplay of the board."
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"body": "AR7: GZ; TYPESQ MID1 just .insrts USQ.MID. There's a USQ MID42 in the archive. But that file looks like a TOPS-20 program. Indeed that makes sense since the archive is named GZ; AR7 TWENEX."
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"body": "Upon revisiting SRA; AR3 GZ.MID, I see that USQ 61 seems to have the same capability as USQ MID42 to be built as two different programs depending on a flag. So it looks like we had the source code all along."
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"created_at": "2018-02-16T14:58:05Z",
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"body": "Have you tested this? Have you set up a chaos net between two DB ITS machines?"
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"created_at": "2018-02-16T16:10:03Z",
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"body": "No, it's not tested."
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"created_at": "2018-02-16T17:36:33Z",
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"body": "I did figure out more about OCM and added a short OCM ORDER. Short version: enter ^E to have the program make a move."
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"created_at": "2018-02-16T17:48:03Z",
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"body": "Krakauer says he doesn't have any code."
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"body": "Questions for Greenblatt:\r\n\r\n- Which two versions of the chess program are these? Are they both by you?\r\n- Is anyone of them Machack?\r\n- What does OCM mean? Old Chess something?\r\n- Is there any 340 display code?"
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"body": "Isn't there a list of programs using the Knight TV? I better start one:\r\n\r\n- Spacewar (TVWAR) #281\r\n- CHESS2 and OCM #266 \r\n- TVEDIT/TVDRAW #431 \r\n- TVREAD #432\r\n- TVWRIT #433\r\n- FED #289 \r\n- XD #634\r\n- MUNCH #633 \r\n- DECUUO emulating a III display (SUDS)"
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"created_at": "2018-02-18T17:37:41Z",
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"body": "Turns out setting TS==0 doesn't give us a standalone MIDAS. It will still set ITSSW==1.\r\n\r\nSetting ITSSW==0 elicits the message \"So what monior is MIDAS supposed to run under?\"\r\n\r\nSo either I'll have to revert this, or find an older version of MIDAS which can run standalone. I found version 329 in Saildart which doesn't make any complaint when no target operating system is selected. But I'm not sure that means it can run standalone."
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"created_at": "2018-02-18T17:38:31Z",
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"body": "Got TECO 335 which seems to be able to run standalone and work with paper tapes.\r\n\r\nI'll see if it can be built and used to replace this binary."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T09:46:15Z",
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"body": "Updated files checked in here: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/muddle/tree/its/%3Cmdl.int%3E\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T10:50:30Z",
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"body": "USQ checks the first letter of its JNAME. If it's `T`, it'll go into TYPESQ mode. So just make a link."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T10:53:59Z",
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"body": "The question is how to make squeezed or crammed files?\r\n\r\nDo we have any samples?"
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"body": "Hello @gzacharias,\r\n\r\nI have found two ITS programs called USQ and TYPESQ, which I believe you wrote. I haven't found any programs to write compressed files. Do you know if there were any in ITS?\r\n\r\nThanks!"
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"body": "#515 is for the first GUNNER. So this can be for the second."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T11:11:50Z",
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"body": "Also inserts RWK; FILES >\r\n\r\nI can find no trace of that file."
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"body": "With an empty file substituted for RWK; FILES >, I get this:\r\n\r\n```\r\nCODEND+14 647 0. 1-176 TTYP Multiply defined\r\nFINGET+2 542 0. 1-039 RFN Undefined\r\nFOUTGT+2 550 0. 1-055 RFN Undefined\r\n```\r\n\r\nPossibly SYSENG; RFN can be used to supply the RFN routine.\r\n\r\nI not sure about TTYP. It's defined as a label in SCRAM. It's also defined in EMPTY, but that's shouldn't be a conflict, right?"
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"body": "MIT-AI (KS10) at LCM (the one on the right, next to the TOAD):\r\nhttp://aap.papnet.eu/pub/img/lcm/vcf_lcm_exhibit/small/P1060410.JPG\r\nhttp://aap.papnet.eu/pub/img/lcm/vcf_lcm_exhibit/small/IMG_20180214_155147715.jpg\r\nits unibus cage:\r\nhttp://aap.papnet.eu/pub/img/lcm/vcf_lcm_exhibit/small/IMG_20180214_155245396.jpg\r\nand its chaosnet board:\r\nhttp://aap.papnet.eu/pub/img/lcm/vcf_lcm_exhibit/small/IMG_20180214_155343491.jpg\r\nhttp://aap.papnet.eu/pub/img/lcm/vcf_lcm_exhibit/small/IMG_20180214_155404068.jpg\r\n(remove \"small\" in URL for higher res photos)"
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"body": "Thanks! P1060410 isn't Chaosnet though."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T13:03:05Z",
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"body": "Copied wrong link by accident. it's correct now."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T13:23:58Z",
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"body": "The standalone version has been tested. The timesharing version hasn't."
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"body": "I think we should include the sources in our source tree, despite not building or using them. Otherwise they might become lost again."
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"body": "That's a good point. They're already part of this repository, so that's some protection against them becoming lost.\r\n\r\nAlso, they would be more valuable if we ensure it's a complete set of files. If they can be built into a binary that's great. If not, we can visually audit the .INSRT statements to be reasonably confident everything's there.\r\n\r\nIf they can't be built with current MIDAS, there's an old MIDAS included in the branch. Maybe we should look for the binaries too, not just sources."
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"body": "We have version numbers, nothing wrong with having multiple version numbers in the tree. I would prefer all the source files in the same directory tree."
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"body": "Yes, being in the repository is good. But it might be nice, for those who are building and installing their own ITS systems to actually have them in the loaded hierarchy. That way, it will be easy for those curious enough to look into them and possibly work on them. I guess it really depends on whether there is a lot of this kind of software and whether it would end up being considered clutter. Maybe an option during build to include them or not?\n\n> On Feb 19, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> That's a good point. They're already part of this repository, so that's some protection against them becoming lost.\n> \n> Also, they would be more valuable if we ensure it's a complete set of files. If they can be built into a binary that's great. If not, we can visually audit the .INSRT statements to be reasonably confident everything's there.\n> \n> If they can't be built with current MIDAS, there's an old MIDAS included in the branch. Maybe we should look for the binaries too, not just sources.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you commented.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/672#issuecomment-366779786>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-YwtFzUqwe8516z8FsOYd1SywRbC0ks5tWcY9gaJpZM4SK-uq>.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "If we were to add old file versions, I wouldn't want to exclude anything (except private data). Who's to say what future generations consider important?\r\n\r\nBut then the file system would become unwieldy. Like Saildart with its directories burgeoning with files. A similar archive for ITS would absolutely be welcome, but that's a different goal from what I had in mind."
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"created_at": "2018-02-19T21:14:17Z",
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"body": "I suggest another repo (its-archive) that will hold all the ITS files that we have. The complete AI and MC dumps, now the earlier stuff and whatever will come. This repo here would then be used as it is now, to build a working system from scratch."
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T09:26:42Z",
"updated_at": "2018-02-20T09:26:42Z",
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"body": "I have now compared ARCDEV 66 against OARCDV BIN. They are not the same! So the information in the email from 1984 is not correct."
},
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T09:29:58Z",
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"body": "@rcornwell I have now pushed changes to build KA ITS in Travis: \r\nhttps://travis-ci.org/PDP-10/its/builds/343740267\r\n\r\nI'm not sure it'll pass the 50-minute build time limit."
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T10:18:10Z",
"updated_at": "2018-02-20T10:18:10Z",
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"body": "I have now created the repository PDP-10/its-vault.\r\n\r\nI have only put files there which match the FN1 of the files already published in the PDP-10/its repository. So it should be a superset of the files used in the ITS build, but still nothing private."
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T11:34:27Z",
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"body": "Note, you'll now have to type\r\n\r\n make clean all EMULATOR=sims\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T14:25:31Z",
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"body": "Just a note for future reference."
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T17:24:35Z",
"updated_at": "2018-04-25T08:18:27Z",
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"body": "Two versions of the MIDAS Muddle has been placed here: \r\nhttp://github.com/PDP-10/muddle\r\n\r\nEDIT: Now also TOPS-20 and VAX MIM."
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"created_at": "2018-02-20T17:25:39Z",
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"body": "And there's a Zork that is slightly newer than the one Bob Supnik has published. Also adds a few more files.\r\n\r\nFor now, it's in a branch called lars/zork.\r\n\r\nEDIT: Slightly older. Supnik's have dates referring to 1981, and Swenson's to 1979. The differences are minor. Both versions are checked in as separate commits. The sources are now in the ZORK directory, but may change to CFS in the future."
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T07:46:52Z",
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"body": "Original source in ZZ; AR2: GUNNER 31. Is that Saku Setälä?"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T08:09:10Z",
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"body": "Hello @setala,\r\n\r\nDid you write the program ZZ; AR2: GUNNER 31?"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T08:27:05Z",
"updated_at": "2018-02-21T08:31:57Z",
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"body": "Maybe P2 phosphor?\r\n\r\nPeak wavelength 510 nm. Decay time 120 ms to 0.1% of original value.\r\n\r\nhttp://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Phosphor"
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"body": "Or 543 nm according to another source.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.bunkerofdoom.com/tubes/crt/crt_phosphor_research.pdf"
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"body": "@philbudne \r\n\r\nI'm trying to use the ASD keys to control the ship starting at the upper left, but I have a hard time doing anything to avoid crashing into a star. Are the thrusters very weak on this particular ship?"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T09:38:46Z",
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"body": "Other than that, the KA10 build runs to completion and includes @ SPCWAR which works. Good job everyone!"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T12:52:53Z",
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"body": "P39 phosphor according to message from Tom Knight.\r\n\r\nCIE XY coordinates 0.195, 0.697 or 0.197, 0.712.\r\n\r\nPeak wavelength 525 nm. "
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"body": "```\r\n>>>***>>> It is a violation of our agreement with IMSL to give <<<***<<<\r\n>>>***>>> these to anyone else (including export to another <<<***<<<\r\n>>>***>>> site). <<<***<<<\r\n"
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"body": "https://www.roguewave.com/products-services/imsl-numerical-libraries"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T14:07:44Z",
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"body": "That's plain RGB green with no red or blue, if a random converter on the web is to be believed."
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"body": "Nope :p\n\n--Saku\n\nOn Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com>\nwrote:\n\n> Hello @setala <https://github.com/setala>,\n>\n> Did you write the program ZZ; AR2: GUNNER 31?\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/515#issuecomment-367244499>, or mute\n> the thread\n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AZMAPYSuvgIOg67HDO-7V_XyHl9hqxUBks5tW88tgaJpZM4L-QaO>\n> .\n>\n"
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"body": "I'm not aware of any differences between ships, but I haven't tried\nvery hard to play the game (just tried to verify the controls work)\nor looked deeply into the sources.\n\nI find I have to lean pretty hard on the thrusters to avoid being pulled\ninto a star when the game starts... And even then I'm often whipped around\none star and thrown into another!\n"
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"body": "The binary is now installed. #662 \r\n\r\nSTINK 124 is here, but it doesn't seem to have standalone capability: https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/files/syseng/stink.124"
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"body": "Fixed by #650"
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"body": "Duplicates #317."
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"body": "@larsbrinkhoff\n\nAre you able to turn the ships? With x11.c I find I have to click in\nthe window before keyboard events work\n\n\n"
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"body": "I made a mistake. It should be named TS UNTALK, or else it will not connect two parties together. Fixed in #677 "
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T17:57:52Z",
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"body": "Fixed in #639 "
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T17:59:20Z",
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"body": "It looks like the complete set of sources is in Saildart. Copied here: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/suds"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T18:02:13Z",
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"body": "@aap, please add any significant discoveries here."
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"body": "@setala if you were user ZZ in ITS, and if you have any stories from back then, don't hesitate to send them here!"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T18:08:01Z",
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"body": "I do click randomly in the window. I'm not sure it does anything other than to put focus on the window. I was guessing maybe a light pen input would start the game or something.\r\n\r\nA and S works to turn my favourite ship (i.e. the key set I remember)."
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"body": "We should have KLH teach us a lesson in PDP-10 gaming!"
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"created_at": "2018-02-21T18:12:44Z",
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"body": "Binary added: #664"
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"body": "I started a MIDAS mode for GNU Emacs: http://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/midas-mode"
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]
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