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PDP-10.its/doc/github/comments32
Lars Brinkhoff 7891748263 Update saved GitHub data.
2018-06-07 17:44:24 +02:00

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"body": "Yeah, I'm not sure why the scanned version doesn't have headers - the source file turns the headers on except for the title page (`.php1`). The example of a wide header on p10.2 shows the sides have been guillotined off, so maybe the header was removed after printing.\r\n\r\nThe index is sorted differently in the PDF because I don't have the TECO script to do it properly (maybe it was in TJ6; .TECO. (INIT)). Here's the XXFILE I used:\r\n\r\n```\r\n:cwd tj6\r\n:tj6 tj6mem /x /c\r\n:teco\r\nERTJ6MEM CONTEN$@YEC\r\n1K\r\n^P1L$:L$1L$\r\nEIPEFTJ6MEM INDEX$\r\n$$\r\n^Z:kill\r\n:tj6 tj6mem /x\r\n:delete .temp.;harscn 1\r\n:versa tj6mem xgp\r\n```"
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"created_at": "2018-05-27T20:05:47Z",
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"body": "Fixed - cheers!"
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"body": "So are versions like 9 and 10 reconciled with versions 263 and 304? Are 263 and 304 build numbers (incremented each time a new macsyma is dumped) and 9 and 10 external release numbers? Any correlation? Or are 263 and 304 just much, much later versions than 9 and 10?"
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"created_at": "2018-05-28T04:17:28Z",
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"body": "I think low numbers seem to be versions for the manual itself."
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"created_at": "2018-05-28T04:30:00Z",
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"body": "What would really be good is if we could figure out what versions of all the component source files made up what version of macsyma. We really have no sure way of knowing what we got."
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"created_at": "2018-05-28T04:40:42Z",
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"body": "I suppose it should be possible to back port all updates from the latest Common Lisp version, i.e. Maxima. But it's probably a lot of work!"
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"created_at": "2018-05-28T04:43:41Z",
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"body": "Yes, that is a lot of work. There were some substantial changes."
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"body": "Thanks, good to go!"
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"body": "Picture of the keyboard.\r\n![ards-keyboard](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40600844-2497b378-6253-11e8-96fa-b8034a59b0c3.png)\r\n"
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"body": "@rcornwell, do you see any ARDS code in your copy of CTSS?"
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"body": "See #856, #854, #628, #242."
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"body": "FONTS WIDTHS is here: https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/bin/fonts/fonts.widths"
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"body": "![chess144](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40620487-4b944a36-6299-11e8-9867-4e4883d0aed2.jpg)\r\n"
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"body": "I have looked through it, and I didn't see any hint of graphics, 340 or otherwise."
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"body": "Michael Speciner staring at the 340 display.\r\n![ms](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40625312-e1fb8f44-62b1-11e8-89f3-2314ce8dfd1a.jpeg)\r\n"
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"body": "Thanks @sraustein. We have the full configuration for all MINITS routers, including XI: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/minits/blob/master/mits_s/config.849#L708-L768\r\n\r\nIt looks like the CH11 device is commented out, and there are two Interlan interfaces one of which was unreliable."
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"body": "AI memo by Michael Beeler. \r\nhttp://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/ai/aim/AIM-290.pdf"
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"body": "Video: http://akron.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/gas-03"
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"body": "Scanned:\r\nhttp://lars.nocrew.org/its/chess144.pdf"
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"body": "Interesting - I wonder how it relates to the other chess programs we've got? It's very different from OCM (even the register names aren't the same!). From the table of commands on p15, it's missing some of the commands used in Krakauer's 1968 transcript of MacHack, so maybe it's a copy of a *very* early version... it would be interesting to compare it to the 1970 DECUS binary."
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"body": "OCM and RG; C 524 have some similarities, at least enough to say they probably share history. But this CHESS 144 could well be something else."
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"body": "It actually looks like a down grade from 426."
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"body": "It wasn't in version 434. See #928."
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"body": "I added TECPUR 508, and now EMACS 24 and 25 will start.\r\n\r\nHowever, they want to open EMACS; .EMACS (INIT). There's probably some necessary TECO code there. Without it, no EMACS commands except ^X ^C seem to work."
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"body": "Maybe at 4:02 here: http://projects.csail.mit.edu/video/history/aifilms/24-worm.mp4"
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"body": "https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/ocr/chess144.txt"
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T11:51:34Z",
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"body": "Trying to figure out how to assemble this. It seems like PALX should be invoked with all source files."
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"body": "\"HOW THE GAS PROGRAM WORKS, WITH A NOTE ON SIMULATING TURTLES WITH TOUCH SENSORS\": http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/ai/aim/AIM-272.pdf"
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T12:13:06Z",
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"body": "SYSTEM has to go first, because it defines macros used in other files."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T17:17:53Z",
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"body": "Here is @ms0's JavaScript reimplementation: \r\nhttps://ms0.github.io/gas.html"
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"body": "The program works to the extent that it displays a four-digit rule number at the lower right of the 340 display. Entering space increases the rule number, and A repeats the rule.\r\n\r\nI haven't seen anything beoynd digits yet."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T17:49:24Z",
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"body": "The standalone assembles when definitions for PI, TTY, and DIS are added. Not tested yet.\r\n\r\nThe timesharing version lacks a definition for INT, which should be the handler for interrupts."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T17:51:36Z",
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"body": "The standalone version assembles when definitions for PI, TTY, and DIS are added.\r\n\r\nThe timesharing version complains about undefined symbols: DDT and TYI."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T17:53:03Z",
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"body": "DDT ought to be in IFE TS. I'll add a macro which does JRST DDT or .VALUE depending on the value of TS."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T17:57:25Z",
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"body": "TYI should return a character typed by the user. It's only defined when TS is 0. It doesn't look like TYO would do the right thing in timesharing."
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"body": "The standalone version says \"ADM INACCESSIBLE\". True enough, the A/D IMX device isn't simulated at al."
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"body": "@rcornwell, we now have three applications which use the IMX (A/D multiplexor) device: This one, Dazzle Dart (#868), and the Flight simulator (#893).\r\n\r\nI'm vague on the details, but I believe some of the A/D channels were connected to pots. HW memo 4 has a listing. AI memo 128 may also have some information."
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"body": "Sorry, I made a comment about the wrong program.\r\n\r\nGAS3 works to some extent in standalone mode. It starts up and prints four lines about the walls. Then console input is accepted. Typing S prints START, and then the program promptly hangs.\r\n\r\n@philbudne, this program opens the Type 30 window. Something in the simulator must be not quite right."
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"body": "ADM INACCESSIBLE is due to the lack of the CONI device assignment bit not going on. If I binary patch around this, I get a Type 30 window. Something's off."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T18:50:13Z",
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"body": "Correction, Mike Speciner originally wrote this program."
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T19:14:01Z",
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"body": "If I have time to bring up a system with ITS 785 or 724, I'll call it OO ITS. It could have EMACS 24 and STINK 7 along with other early versions of selected programs. I'll put the files here: https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/ooits"
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T19:24:30Z",
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"body": "The EMACS version is from [PURE], not the TS file."
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"body": "It occurred to me that the resolution of the XGP isn't far off that of a modern 4k monitor. So for anyone who'd like to try some of these fonts in their terminal emulator, here's [a quick hack](https://github.com/atsampson/its-tests/blob/master/tools/ksttobdf) to convert KST files to BDF files. 20FG KST is quite nice.\r\n\r\n![t](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/436317/40684324-e87a0468-6388-11e8-8d49-8852feec88fa.png)\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-05-29T21:33:08Z",
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"body": "If we have the capability now, to create a file from ITS that can be converted (somehow) and transferred to a linux host for printing on a modern-day printer, would someone please provide instructions for doing this? I can't figure out how to do this from what I've read here and elsewhere. "
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"body": "Sure - here's an example.\r\n\r\n- Create `HELLO TJ6` as follows:\r\n\r\n```\r\n.xgp\r\n.font 0 40vshd\r\nHELLO WORLD!\r\n```\r\n\r\n- `:tj6 /x hello`, which writes output for the XGP as `HELLO XGP`. (Or you could do something else that produces XGP output; I've also tried SUDS into SCNV, and @ with fonts specified.)\r\n\r\n- `:versa hello xgp`, which converts it to a Harvard scan file `.TEMP.; HARSCN 1`.\r\n\r\n- FTP `HARSCN 1` over to your host machine in image mode. (Or use a tape and itstar, in which case say -Wits below instead of -Wbin.)\r\n\r\n- `harscntopbm -Wbin harscn.1 | pnmsplit - out.%d.pbm`, which will produce a PBM image file for each page. harscntopbm is in [this pull request](https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/pdp10-its-disassembler/pull/19).\r\n\r\n- The PBM images will probably need to be rotated (for TJ6 and @, by 90 degrees; for SUDS, by 180 degrees); you can do something like `for x in *.pbm; do pnmflip -r90 \"$x\" | ppm2tiff /dev/stdin \"$x.tif\"; done` to rotate and convert to TIFF. If you want a PDF file, you can then do `tiffcp -c g4 out.*.tif all.tif; tiff2pdf -p letter -x200 -y200 -ro -o all.pdf all.tif`."
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"body": "Very cool. I'll give it a try. I'd like to create a PDF of the latest Macsyma manual."
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"body": "This process didn't work for me. I ended up with two TIFF files -- the first one, when viewed on my Ubuntu machine seemed empty. The second one had the H of Hello and W of World with a space in between. So the output was \"H W!\"\r\n\r\nDoes the font only support uppercase letters? My input was \"Hello World!\""
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"body": "@atsampson, this would be a perfect beginner HOWTO like doc/hello-midas.md."
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"body": "Hello @cbfiddle,\r\n\r\nThank you for mailing the CHESS 144 printout. In this GitHub issue, there are links to the scanned PDF and a OCR'd text file. There are also some thoughts about how it compares to other versions of Greenblatt's MacHack VI. Do you remember anything about this history behind your copy of the file?"
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"body": "Sources:\r\n\r\n- [ITS hardware memo #4](https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/its-archives/blob/master/ailab/ITS_Hardware_Memo_4.pdf)\r\n- [AI memo 128: Hardware and Program Memo About SERVO](https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/its-archives/blob/master/ailab/AIM-128.pdf)\r\n- [PDP-6/10 Dazzle Dart](https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/files/klh/dazdrt.110), #868\r\n- [Flight simulator](https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/files/klh/flight.306), #893\r\n- [Galaxy](https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/files/ms/galaxy.18), #932"
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"body": "Channels according to HW memo 4. There are 200 (octal) channels, but not all are connected.\r\n\r\n- 2 - Joystick console AMF swing\r\n- 3 - Joystick console AMF vertical\r\n- 4 - Joystick console AMF horizontal\r\n- 5 - Joystick console AMF roll\r\n- 6 - Joystick console AMR yaw\r\n- 7 - Joystick console Alles hand tilt\r\n- 10 - Joystick console Alles hand extend\r\n- 11 - Joystick console Alles hand rotate\r\n- 12 - Joystick console Alles hand grasp\r\n- 13\r\n- 14 - BNC connector 1\r\n- 15 - BNC connector 2\r\n- 16 - BNC connector 3\r\n- 17 - BNC connector 4\r\n- 20\r\n- 21\r\n- 22 - Hand B tilt\r\n- 23 - Hand B rotate\r\n- 24 - Hand B extend\r\n- 25 - Hand B grasp\r\n- 26 - Hand B finger 1\r\n- 27 - Hand B finger 2\r\n- 30 - Joystick console pot box 4, TDR horizontal\r\n- 31 - TVC pot box manual iris\r\n- 32 - TVC pot box manual focus\r\n- 33 - Pot box 2-6, Cannon lens zoom\r\n- 34 - Pot box 2-7, Cannon lens focus\r\n- 35 - Pot box 2-8, Cannon lens iris\r\n- 36 - Pot box 2-1, TVB pan\r\n- 37 - Pot box 2-2, TVB tilt\r\n\r\n- 62 - TVC pot box 3\r\n- 63 - TVC pot box 4\r\n- 64 - TVC pot box 5\r\n- 65 - TVC pot box 6\r\n- 66 - Joystick X\r\n- 67 - Joystick Y\r\n- 70 - New pot box 1\r\n- 71 - New pot box 2\r\n- 72 - New pot box 3\r\n- 73 - New pot box 4\r\n- 74 - New pot box 5\r\n- 75 - New pot box 6\r\n- 76 - New pot box 7\r\n- 77 - New pot box 8\r\n- 100\r\n- 101\r\n- 102 - AMF arm pot swing\r\n- 103 - AMF arm pot vertical\r\n- 104 - AMF arm pot roll\r\n- 105\r\n- 106 - AMF arm pot yaw\r\n- 107 - Alles hand pot tilt\r\n- 110 - Alles hand pot extend\r\n- 111 - Alles hand pot rotate\r\n- 112 - Alles hand pot grasp\r\n\r\n- 122 - Hand B pot tilt\r\n- 123 - Hand B pot rotate\r\n- 124 - Hand B pot extend\r\n- 125 - Hand B pot grasp\r\n- 126 - Hand B pot finger 1\r\n- 127 - Hand B pot finger 2\r\n"
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"body": "Dazzle Dart channel use:\r\n\r\n- Player 1: 73, 70, 71 (New pot box)\r\n- Player 2: 74, 77, 76 (New pot box)\r\n- Player 3: 10, 2, 3 (AMF arm console pots)\r\n- Player 4: 30, 5, 6 (AMF arm console pots)\r\n\r\nThis tells us something about physical proximity of inputs."
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"body": "GALAXY just uses channel 70, New pot box 1."
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"body": "Uses device 764, what is that?"
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"body": "FLIGHT is more complicated. There is commented out code to use the sequence mode of the IMX device to convert several channels, and interrupts.\r\n\r\nLooks like it uses these channels:\r\n- 70-77, New pot box 1-8.\r\n- 150-152, Unknown.\r\n- 171, Unknown."
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"body": "Uses IMX for input. New pot box 1-8, plus unknown channels 150-152 and 171."
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T10:42:20Z",
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"body": "Yes, that sounds like it worked correctly - that font does only have capital letters and some symbols in, and TJ6's output starts with a blank page. (Edit: no, it doesn't; VERSA adds one, for some reason...)\r\n\r\nA HOWTO sounds like a nice idea to me too. :-)"
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T12:32:26Z",
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"body": "PEEK has an IMX/OMX mode. It's IFN 0-ed, but can be brought back."
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"body": "By adding a stub IMX device, I got past the sticking point and GALAXY flashed some points on the 340 display. Then the display faded, probably because a crash or some other sticking point."
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"body": "With the [stub IMX device](https://github.com/rcornwell/sims/issues/67), I get a display with some gauges."
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"body": "![flight](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40731598-b24c717e-6431-11e8-8548-af6fe09c68af.png)\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T15:50:20Z",
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"body": "Cool! What are those weird yellow diagonal lines messing up an otherwise reasonable display?"
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"body": "I don't know, but maybe some part of the landscape.\r\n\r\nMy IMX just returns 0 for all channels, which of course is the lowest possibe value. Perhaps this makes the software go haywire. Maybe a neutral middle value like 2048 would be better."
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T16:04:32Z",
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"body": "CC @philbudne, some 340 progress here."
},
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T16:21:56Z",
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"body": "NEATO!!!"
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T18:51:55Z",
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"body": "I have set a breakpoint in the main loop (STEP), and it seems to be chugging along. It's just the displayed dots that are going away. Maybe the inputs need to be trimmed."
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T19:08:33Z",
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"body": "Device 420 indeed seems to be the Spacewar consoles. The program does CONO 420,40, just like Spacewar.\r\n\r\nHowever, enabling the SIMH device makes the gauges display dissapear quickly."
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"body": "Unfortunately, I do not recall anything about the file."
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T19:19:54Z",
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"body": "Hooray for 340 progress!!!"
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"body": "\"PDP-6 COMPUTER WITH FLIGHT SIMULATOR DISPLAY\", from [AI memo 253](http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/ai/aim/AIM-253.pdf), page 69.\r\n![flight2](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40744825-0cbe6e86-6456-11e8-85b2-f09faaa698cd.png)\r\n"
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"body": "Sorry, the picture on page 70 is much better. And clearly it's the same program!\r\n![flight3](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40745171-0e36c7c6-6457-11e8-8f36-0fb5009bbb7f.png)\r\n"
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"body": "On Wed, 30 May 2018 13:16:20 -0700\nLars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n\n> Sorry, the picture on page 71 is much better. And clearly it's the\n> same\n> program! ![flight3](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/775050/40745171-0e36c7c6-6457-11e8-8f36-0fb5009bbb7f.png)\n> \n> \n\nMUCH better :)\n\n-- \n73 AF6WS\nBickley Consulting West Inc.\nhttp://bickleywest.com\n\n\"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero\"\n"
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"created_at": "2018-05-30T20:33:56Z",
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"body": "Appendix D describes the flight simulator briefly and refers to AI memo 209, which is missing from MIT's website. There should also be a program listing! But it has been left out from the PDF."
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"body": "The device SPCWAR controllers used may have been general purpose\ninputs on a patch panel. And ISTR the \"normal\" state of all the PDP-6\nspacewar switches may have been \"on\"\n"
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T12:41:20Z",
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"body": "Wants to load FILMER BIN into the PDP-6.\r\n\r\nSource code mentions cells. Maybe a cellular automaton?"
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T13:00:09Z",
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"body": "This program has some kind of interrupt problem with console input. See rcornwell/sims#68."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T19:33:20Z",
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"body": "INFO; EMACSD 1 is a Scribe file."
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"body": "[AI memo 117](http://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/ai/aim/AIM-117.pdf) also describes the IMX device. It has another list of channels."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T19:48:26Z",
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"body": "Will backspace do overprinting?"
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"body": "Assming you have seen the @ output, do you think the DAZDRT and CHESS 144 listings were done with @?"
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"body": "I read the instructions, and I think they are reasonabe. I can't think of any other programs off hand."
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"body": "Oh wait. Please link to printing.md from somewhere. Probably the Documentation section in the top-level README.md."
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"body": "The program uses some IMX channels (150-152, 171) which are not documented i hardware memo 4. They are documented in AI memo 117, but I'm not sure those assignments make sense."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T20:34:27Z",
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"body": "Device 764 is close to 760.\r\n\r\n```\r\n Device 760 of the PDP-6 used to be used for temporary\r\n direct sense hookups. (For example, the low six\r\n bits controlled lights on the hand of the AMF arm.)\r\n"
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"body": "Backspace will indeed do overprinting, and you can backspace past the left margin. (I tested backspace and tab by hand-hacking an XGP file, since TJ6 doesn't use either and @ only uses tabs in the cross-reference list.)\r\n\r\nThe CHESS 144 and DAZDRT 110 listings are from a contemporary version of @ - the current version prints a key at the top of the cross-reference listing, but otherwise it looks pretty much the same if you give it the switches listed on the front page."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T20:55:36Z",
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"body": "I suspect so, that looks like @ output to me. And that's what we all used to generate listings of MIDAS code. "
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T22:05:58Z",
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"body": "Have you tried CRTSTY ANSI? That's what I'm using; it seems to be friendlier to modern terminals than CRTSTY VT100."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T22:22:05Z",
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"author_association": "CONTRIBUTOR",
"body": "#930 supercedes this."
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"created_at": "2018-05-31T23:02:58Z",
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"body": "The system's idea of the date is stored in QDATE, which is updated by CLCQDT (in TIME) and read along with TIMOFF by various syscalls in DISK (e.g. ARQDAT for .RQDATE). It looks like it would be straightforward to make CLCQDT write the year into 4.9-4.1 rather than 4.7-4.1.\r\n\r\nThe filesystem doesn't appear to use bits 4.8 or 4.9 in UNDATE or UNREF for anything.\r\n\r\nHowever, QDATE is set to -1 on boot to indicate that the time isn't known yet, and there are a few tests that do things like `SKIPL A,QDATE`. These would need adjusting to test for -1 specifically if we wanted to use 4.9."
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T03:56:55Z",
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"body": "No I haven't, but I will now. Thanks!"
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T04:07:59Z",
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"body": "I asked Krakauer, and he said that although he doesn't remember specifically, it's likely his chessboard code due to the fact it defines pieces called FBGHST and FWGHST. They are displayed during an en passant capture. (I didn't know about that move!)"
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"body": "Thanks for checking. There's also a chance some user program may use a negative value to signal a special condition."
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T05:18:02Z",
"updated_at": "2018-06-01T05:18:17Z",
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"body": "Checked new programs:\r\n\r\n- Flight simulator: displays gagues! Shortly after, veers off into weirdness.\r\n- Dazzle Dart: doesn't work\r\n- Patterson's Worm: interacts on console, but no graphics\r\n- Gas simulation: prints text to console, then hangs.\r\n- GALAXY: displays points for fraction of a second, then blanks. It's not hung though.\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T05:29:55Z",
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"body": "Also tried to assemble 11LOGO to run in 11SIM with 340 display, but without success."
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"body": "There's one feature that would be really useful: Jumping to a line specified by a MIDAS error; i.e. page number and line number within page."
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T10:31:38Z",
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"body": "I'll ask if MIT's Scanning Lab wants digitally remastered copies of the memos."
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"body": "Heh. That could be a fairly substantial project in itself, depending on how many source files you could find in the vault..."
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"body": "I should add this information from http://www.boogles.com/local/papers/tcfs-thesis/thesis.html\r\n\r\nMachine | Density | Tracks | Years | Tapes\r\n-- | -- | -- | -- | --\r\nDM KA-10 | 800 | 9 track | 1976--83 | 330\r\nAI KA-10 | 800 | 7 track | 1971--82 | 362\r\nML KA-10 | 800 | 7 track | 1973--83 | 203\r\nMC KL-10 | 800 | 7 track | 1976--85 | 511\r\nMC KL-10 | 1600 | 9 track | 1981--86 | 60\r\nAll KS | 6250 | 9 track | 1985--90 | 159\r\n"
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"created_at": "2018-06-01T11:40:58Z",
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"body": "Converts to a CBIN format which FTP11 accepts."
}
]
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