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3103 lines
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3103 lines
179 KiB
Plaintext
[
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"body": "I'll take this opportunity to scan the system for more occurrences of `[330700,,`, which is the left half of a byte pointer accessing the year field."
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"updated_at": "2017-02-01T08:21:43Z",
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"body": "I summarized my progress so far, and sent this to Kent Pitman (@netsettler). However, he answered that he didn't know much about dumping, and referred me to @cstacy.\r\n\r\n> I have ran into a problem involving TECO, which I have a hard time getting past. Since you seem to have been one of the primary TECO hackers at MIT, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction?\r\n>\r\n> The problem is dumping a new standalone INFO.\r\n>\r\n> In ITS, there is a file INFO; INFO EMACS which would seem to do this. INFO$^S :EMACS runs that file and dumps a new EMACS; TSINFO >.\r\n>\r\n> However, that dumped INFO doesn't work fully. I starts EMACS, but doesn't enter INFO mode automatically. The problem seems to be that the INFO EMACS installs a macro calling M(M.M Info Enter$) in FS ^R ENTER, but that macro isn't run in the new INFO.\r\n>\r\n> When I examine the value in FS ^R ENTER in the dumped INFO, it still has the default value, not the macro from INFO EMACS. So it seems dumping the new INFO doesn't save FS ^R ENTER, or running INFO doesn't pick up the new FS ^R ENTER.\r\n\r\nIf Chris or someone else sees this, here is INFO; INFO EMACS: \r\nhttps://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/lars/info/src/info/info.emacs \r\n(on a branch until this is solved)"
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"body": "I forwarded the above message to Chris via email and asked him to comment here (or in email)."
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"body": "I am, but there may be more places to fix which I can add to this pull request. In particular, if I'm already touching DATIME, I can look there."
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"created_at": "2017-01-11T16:59:29Z",
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"body": "Hmm... I see changed versions of existing files (with the same version FNAME2). That suggests you didn't create a new file with an incremented FN2."
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"body": "FIND, DATIME, and ITS are all modifications to existing (versioned) files. We should create new files with incremented FN2s."
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"body": "Yes, I will increment the versions."
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"body": "But I don't want to do a ton of small edits and end up with e.g. ITS 1872."
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"body": "Ok, I’ll wait to merge until I see this.\n> On Jan 11, 2017, at 09:02, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com> wrote:\n> \n> Yes, I will increment the versions.\n> \n> —\n> You are receiving this because you commented.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/408#issuecomment-271926852>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA0-YwR9pdA6FDtGLT5PBgQs-JgPU7bvks5rRQsngaJpZM4Lf5Xy>.\n> \n\n"
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"body": "Torgny Tholerus:\r\n> Den första versionen var skriven i MACRO-10 för TOPS-10. Jag tror inget finns kvar, men Jacob kanske vet bättre.\r\n\r\nTranslated: _The first version was written in MACRO-10 for TOPS-10. I don't think anything remains, but Jacob may know better._"
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"body": "OK, I will scan them.\n\nOn Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 7:01 AM, Lars Brinkhoff <notifications@github.com>\nwrote:\n\n>\n> - its.paging by John Wilson.\n> - ITS Hardwere Memo 2 by Jack Holloway, from @mgthompson\n> <https://github.com/mgthompson>.\n>\n> @mgthompson <https://github.com/mgthompson> wrote:\n>\n> Let me know if you are interested in the other hardware memos.\n>\n> I am!\n> ------------------------------\n> You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:\n>\n> https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414\n> Commit Summary\n>\n> - Add documents about ITS paging.\n>\n> File Changes\n>\n> - *A* doc/ITS_Hardware_Memo_2.pdf\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414/files#diff-0> (0)\n> - *A* doc/sysdoc/its.paging\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414/files#diff-1> (64)\n>\n> Patch Links:\n>\n> - https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414.patch\n> - https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414.diff\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/pull/414>, or mute the thread\n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AEFUHnci6E4f0FycJkEObIJGtAaJkAOAks5rRhYPgaJpZM4LhrKe>\n> .\n>\n\n\n\n-- \nMichael Thompson\n"
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"body": "My JOBDAT didn't work well when used to build FAIL."
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"body": "So what does this mean? Are you saying that your reconstructed version of JOBDAT REL was bad -- or something else? Why close this ticket? Are we giving up?"
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"body": "Oh, sorry. This is the PR and not the ticket. (I get confused sometimes with the UI being so similar). So I assume you're going to try again (at some point) with a new PR, but keep the ticket open?"
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"body": "Someone could also take a shot at implementing a simh device simulator for the Interlan NI1010A..."
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"body": "Right, the JOBDAT REL built from my new source did work. I closed this, because I wanted to get back to it later, and I thought it looked bad to have a dangling pull request."
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"body": "Thanks. However, now I'm confused. One comment said \"My JOBDAT didn't work well...\" and your latest comment said it did work. Which is it? "
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"body": "Argh, typo! Should have been \"didn't work\"."
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"body": "Yes, but it would be a gamble. We don't know if ITS can use the NI1010A. I should probably contact the person who was writing the driver code."
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"body": "@jtw43, did you finish the NI1010A driver?"
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"body": "http://www.saildart.org/[SIM,SYS] has many SIMULA files.\r\n\r\nSIMULA.SHR is probably the compiler?"
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"body": "More:\r\n> While I remember doing several projects with TOPS-20 in the 70s, I cannot remember any particular features or inspirations from it.\r\n"
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"body": "Asked RMS, but he doesn't remember anything about this."
|
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"body": "@jar398 Do you remember rewriting the Common Lisp kermit for use with Maclisp? Was the MATH; COMMON > file your own invention? Do you have a copy?"
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"body": "@Devon7 should know if there are any MIT-EECS backup tapes."
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"body": "Jacob Palme:\r\n> Allra första versionen av KOM kan vara svår att hitta.\r\n> \r\n> En person som sparat gamla DEC-10-program och hårdvara är Peter Löthberg. du kan ju fråga honom om han har något kvar.\r\n\r\nTranslated: *One person who has collected old DEC-10 programs and hardware is Peter Löthberg. you can ask him if he has anything left.*"
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"body": "I have a copy of AI:MATH;KERMIT 170 , allegedly from 1990, here on my\nlaptop, and it has authorship information at the top:\n\n;;; Mark David (LMI) Original version, using KERMIT.C as a\nguide\n;;; George Carrette (LMI) Various enhancements\n;;; Mark Ahlstrom (Honeywell) Port to 3600 (edits marked with \";1;\")\n;;; Jonathan Rees (MIT) Major total rewrite for Maclisp/Common Lisp\n\nI can't recall what I used it for.\n\nI don't recall what COMMON > was and I don't seem to have a copy. It sounds\nlike you know something about it - can you jog my memory?\n\nJonathan\n"
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"body": "I doubt it. I stopped working at the MIT EECS facility in 1989 or 1990. By that time the Decsystem 20 was long gone. Teaching had moved onto some kind of HP workstations that had Scheme development environments on them, and administration had moved completely to Vaxstations running BSD. I don't even know if we had a working 9-track tape drive anymore."
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"body": "@jar398 Thank you. Apparently, you took a Common Lisp implementation of Kermit, and made it run in Maclisp. If you look further down in KERMIT 170, you can see:\r\n\r\n #+Maclisp\r\n (EVAL-WHEN (EVAL LOAD COMPILE)\r\n (OR (GET 'COMMON 'LOADEDP) (LOAD '((DSK MATH) COMMON))))\r\n\r\nIt's a CL compatability layer for Maclisp."
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"body": "I don't know why I don't have the whole of the MATH; directory. Maybe I\nshould try to track it down.\n\nI believe the authorship info is in chronological order. What it says is:\n1. First there was the C version all kermit lovers know\n2. Then GJC wrote a Maclisp version (it doesn't say that, but I remember\nthat GJC's kermit was Maclisp) (will cc: him to check)\n3. Then Mark A ported that to the 3600\n4. Then I ported it to Common Lisp.\n"
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"body": "I roamed the Courts of Chaos building & testing CADR memory cards, I probably logged into MIT-Eddie, I imagine undergrad interns spun tapes and no doubt there was a small rack in the machine room but I've no knowledge of nor contact with EECS backups.\r\n\r\n\t\t\tPeace\r\n\t\t\t\t—Devon\r\n\r\nP.S. Hi Nessus! Going to Arisia this weekend? I’ll probably give it a miss due to weekend classes."
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"body": "I have found some stuff. Short of time for a couple of days. Will be back.\r\n\r\n.type parse0.bcp\r\n// BCPL COMPILER, WRITTEN BY:\r\n// PETE GARDNER, COMPUTING CENTRE, UNIVERSITY OF ESSEX,\r\n// WIVENHOE PARK, COLCHESTER, ESSEX. C04 3SQ.\r\n$NOLIST\r\nGET \"SYSHDR\"\r\nGET \"SYMHDR\"\r\nGET \"BLDHDR\"\r\n$LIST\r\n\r\nSTATIC $(\r\nNAMETREE=NIL; RLINE=NIL; NLPENDING=NIL; RECPT=NIL\r\nSYMB=NIL; NULLTAG=NIL; TAGLIST=NIL; RECLEVEL=NIL\r\nLIBP=NIL; ENTP=NIL; LDP=NIL; NILNODE=NIL\r\nXREFLIST=NIL; LASTXREF=NIL; XREFGET=NIL; SYMBPP=NIL\r\n$)\r\n\r\n"
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"body": "@hrlzm I wouldn't be surprised if you could find KOM. Stacken ran it for a while, right?"
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"body": "*Experience with the use of the COM computerized conferencing system* \r\nhttps://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/reports/c10166.pdf"
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"body": "Discussion in Swedish about this version of SIMULA: \r\nhttps://people.dsv.su.se/~jpalme/qzkom/simula-erf-8103-k10018.html\r\n\r\nArchived by Jacob Palme."
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"body": "See #401 and simh/simh#373."
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"body": "Status update:\r\nI have found my two tapes from March 1984, with MUD and BCPL on them. Holding them in my hand\r\nat this very moment.\r\nI SHOULD have them as .tap files, but there are many places to look.\r\nHowever, I have the (hopefully) full contents on disk on my tops-10 system(s).\r\nFiles READ.ME and READ.MUD from the MUD directory:\r\n\r\nTommy,\r\nThis is MUD! The file READ.MUD is a short note from Richard Bartle.\r\nThe .MAS files are the source, in compressed format - use the SUBFIL\r\nprogram to unpick them. However, it is all written in Essex BCPL, which\r\nwe sell under licence, so if you don't have it, let me know + I'll\r\narrange for licence forms to be sent to you. It isn't expensive - I\r\nthink 50 pounds for academic institutions - but we try to avoid\r\npiracy if possible.\r\nEnjoy your game!\r\nRick.\r\n\r\nFrom Bartle R[2011,2776] on February 14, 1984 at 6:59 PM\r\n The source files for MUD (ie BCPL files) in SUBFIL format are\r\nas follows:\r\n MUD.MAS[2011,2776]\r\n MUD.TXT[2011,2776]\r\n MUDTXT.MAS[2011,2776]\r\nall on DSKB of course! They won't be much use, however, the .EXE file and\r\nassociated bits are\r\n MUD.EXE[2011,2011]\r\n *.DBA[2011,2011]\r\n MUD.??M[2011,2011]\r\n DBASE.EXE[2011,2653]\r\nalso on DSKB. If DBASE is used, then then MUD.TXT and MUDTXT.MAS are useful,\r\ntoo.\r\n There's another, smaller version of MUD called VALLEY. This consists\r\nof: VALLEY.EXE[2011,2011]\r\n VALLEY.??M[2011,2011]\r\nand some of the files that MUD needs.\r\n If sending files is a costly business, then the minimumneeded to\r\nplay MUD is MUD.EXE, *.DBA and MUD.??M . If you want a smaller game, get\r\nVALLEY.* . If you want to correct minor bugs and do your own dungeons, get\r\nDBASE.EXE and MUD.TXT . There's a (bad) database manipulation program, too,\r\nPOWER.EXE[2011,2011].\r\n\r\n.cd 10,335,bcpl\r\nNow at <10,335,bcpl> <055>\r\n\r\n.dir \r\n\r\nBCPL EXE 104 <155> 8-Feb-80 3H(103) DSKB: [10,335,BCPL]\r\nBCPL MAS 582 <155> 12-Feb-80\r\nBCPL00 EXE 132 <155> 8-Feb-80 3H(103)\r\nBCPL01 EXE 144 <155> 8-Feb-80 3H(103)\r\nBCPL02 EXE 104 <155> 8-Feb-80 3H(103)\r\nBCPL03 EXE 28 <155> 8-Feb-80 3H(103)\r\n360LIB MAS 12 <155> 17-Aug-78\r\nACS GET 1 <155> 2-Nov-77\r\nARRLIB GET 1 <155> 15-Aug-75\r\nARRLIB MAS 7 <155> 10-May-76\r\nARRLIB REL 3 <155> 15-Aug-75\r\nASSINT MAS 18 <155> 7-Sep-76\r\nBCLDOC CTL 1 <155> 22-Nov-78\r\nBCLEND RNM 1 <155> 6-May-76\r\nBCLMAC MAC 5 <155> 6-Mar-75\r\nBCLUSR RNM 3 <155> 19-Nov-75\r\nBCPL CTL 5 <155> 22-Nov-78\r\nBCPL HLP 5 <155> 31-Aug-78\r\nBCPL RNM 206 <155> 15-Nov-78\r\nBCPL TXT 11 <155> 21-Nov-78\r\nBCPLDT HLP 2 <155> 15-Apr-75\r\nBCPLDT MAS 171 <155> 25-May-76\r\nBCPLDT REL 97 <155> 23-Mar-76\r\nBCPLIB CTL 7 <155> 7-Oct-78\r\nBCPLIB GET 2 <155> 23-Oct-75\r\nBCPLIB RNM 78 <155> 7-Oct-78\r\nBITS GET 2 <155> 25-Feb-75\r\nBUILD CTL 7 <155> 31-Aug-78\r\nCMDLIB GET 1 <155> 10-Sep-75\r\nCMDLIB MAS 12 <155> 21-Feb-78\r\nCMDLIB REL 6 <155> 21-Feb-78\r\nCOM22C SCM 5 <155> 26-Apr-78\r\nCOROUT GET 3 <155> 20-Nov-75\r\nCOROUT MAS 17 <155> 10-May-76\r\nCOROUT REL 5 <155> 26-Jan-77\r\nDICLIB GET 3 <155> 23-Jul-76\r\nDICLIB MAS 26 <155> 27-Jul-76\r\nDICLIB REL 12 <155> 23-Jul-76\r\nERRORS GET 2 <155> 8-Jun-78\r\nGLOBAL BCL 3 <155> 13-Mar-75\r\nGLOBAL CTL 2 <155> 29-Sep-77\r\nGLOBAL REL 83 <155> 13-Mar-75\r\nICLLIB MAS 29 <155> 7-Mar-79\r\nIOLIB GET 1 <155> 23-Oct-75\r\nIOPACK GET 1 <155> 7-Oct-78\r\nIOUUO GET 1 <155> 7-Feb-75\r\nJOBDAT GET 1 <155> 7-Feb-75\r\nKERNEL GET 1 <155> 7-Oct-78\r\nLOWLIB REL 131 <155> 8-Feb-80\r\nQUEUER MAS 177 <155> 26-Oct-78\r\nRFS GET 3 <155> 15-Sep-75\r\nRFSLIB GET 1 <155> 19-Sep-75\r\nRFSLIB MAS 38 <155> 22-Oct-76\r\nRFSLIB REL 28 <155> 19-Feb-76\r\nSCB GET 5 <155> 21-Feb-78\r\nSCNLIB MAS 56 <155> 9-Oct-78\r\nSIMULA MAS 18 <155> 25-Nov-75\r\nSUBFIL BCL 19 <155> 15-Sep-78\r\nSUBFIL CTL 2 <155> 29-Sep-77\r\nSUBFIL EXE 56 <155> 15-Sep-78 3B(13)\r\nSUBFIL HLP 5 <155> 31-Oct-75\r\nSYNLIB REL 10 <155> 15-Apr-75\r\nUSEFUL GET 1 <155> 7-Oct-78\r\nBCPLIB MAS 227 <155> 12-Feb-80\r\nBCPL DIR 7 <155> 20-Apr-79\r\nBCPLIB REL 137 <155> 7-Feb-80\r\n Total of 2874 blocks in 66 files on DSKB: [10,335,BCPL]\r\n\r\nWill set this up for public access somehow next week.\r\n\r\n--Johnny\r\n"
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"body": "Thanks @hrlzm!\r\n\r\nI got the MUD sources from Richard Bartle yesterday. I'm just awaiting explicit permission to publish the files. However, everone thought Essex BCPL was lost forever, so this is most exciting!"
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"body": "Since it seems to be fixed now, I'll close this issue."
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"body": "Source code: https://github.com/PDP-10/MUD1\r\n\r\nNeeds Essex BCPL compiler."
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"body": "I wonder if this is MacHack IV, or another chess program?\r\n\r\nhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Hack"
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"body": "I compared WUMPUS.MID with TS WUMPUS, and they are almost identical, except for the system calls of course.\r\n\r\nHTML rendition: \r\nhttp://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/SRI_NIC_PERM_SRC_3_19910112/01/utilities/wumpus.mid.html"
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"body": "Nice! That shouldn't be too hard to re-create -- unless there are lots of system calls!"
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"body": "On Fri, 13 Jan 2017, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:\n\n>\n>SV: DOC; has these files:\n>\n>ASSEMB MAN\n>BBN MAN\n>CGOL DOC\n>DEFVST DOC\n>LISP DOC\n>LISP NEW\n>LISP NOT\n>MIDAS DOC\n>OUTLIN MAN\n>QQOORD DOC\n>STEP DOC\n>STEPMM DOC\n>STEPMM INF\n>THIS NOT\n>\n>Many of those don't exist on AI, MC, or PI. It's a mystery where they came from. @Pul-Ess?\n\nSorry, I wasn't taking notes, and my memory is week.\nBy the file names and timestamps they I don't thnk they are native.\nLooks like mostly lisp stuff -- maybe HIBOU knows something ?\n\n \t/Paul\n"
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"body": "- Lawrence Krakauer has a few pictures of PDP-6 boards, and the Fabritek memory: \r\n http://google.com/search?q=site%3Aljkrakauer.com+%22pdp-6%22&tbm=isch\r\n- I found this from around 1993, but I see no blue boxes. \r\n https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9NHNKTV-M\r\n- This video offers a glimpse. Is that Greenblat playing chess at 7:40? \r\n And around 8 minutes there are some handsome boxes, not no console? \r\n And a glimpse of the Fabritek memory.\r\n https://www.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/mathlab-81\r\n\r\n"
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"body": "Looks like mathlab had their software running on the AI PDP-6 at the time.\r\nHere's another video about project MAC showing the PDP-6 in all its beauty (mirrored for some reason): https://www.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/mac-104\r\nEDIT: Not mirrored here: https://www.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/mac-45\r\nEDIT: The person at 3:40 here looks like Greenblatt: https://www.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/robot-02 Kotok at 5:00 with someone I don't know next to him.\r\nEDIT: Assembler code on a PDP-6: http://projects.csail.mit.edu/video/history/aifilms/43-arm.mp4\r\nEDIT: https://www.csail.mit.edu/videoarchive/history/aifilms/worm-55\r\n\r\nThese AI films are a great find!\r\n"
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"body": "Done so far:\r\n\r\nhttps://www.pdc.kth.se/~bygg/tops/BCPL.tap\r\nhttps://www.pdc.kth.se/~bygg/tops/MUD.tap\r\n\r\nThese files should work directly with your tops-10 machine.\r\n\r\nFor those of you without access to tops-10, I will extract all the .MAS files and produce a set of all\r\nthe text files in some format, like a .tar or .zip file. This will happen soon, but not today. :-(\r\n\r\n--Johnny\r\n"
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"body": "I noticed the serial number of the DM PDP-6 is now given as 16. According to phil's list this is the Stanford machine!?! How can this be? AFAIK the Stanford 6 remained there for quite a long time."
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"body": "Sorry @aap, I must have put number in the wrong place. Indeed we know very little about the DM PDP-6."
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"body": "Have you tried contacting anyone about this machine?"
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"body": "No."
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"body": "There are two pictures of the SAIL machines. The KL10 is in the foreground, and I think I see a KA10 in the background of the second picture.\r\n\r\n"
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"body": "I created a new PDP-10/essex-bcpl repository.\r\n\r\nJust the tape image for now. My copy of t10backup.c didn't handle the image too well. I had to hack it to get all files extracted, so I'm not sure they're ok. And of course, I can't do anything about the master files."
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||
"body": "I don't recall that the DM PDP-6 was ever powered on during my tenure (starting in 1974), but it was there--as suggested above, just to the right of the KA's console. I can't be certain of this, but there is a distinct impression (someone must have said something) that the PDP-6 was serial number omega. Of course, there was a similar impression that AI's was serial number alpha, and I see from the list that it's 2.\r\nI should know the serial number for XX, because God knows I called field service for it often enough, but alas...\r\nDM had a lot of dead / sketchy hardware lying about: apart from the 6, there was some Fabritek memory that never really worked (probably started out on the 6). Main memory included an MD10, a couple of MA10s, ultimately an MF10, and an ARM-10 (256K in one box!). And there was the Evans & Sutherland LDS-1, which worked occasionally--whenever Ed Black went up and fixed some more cold solder joints that had failed."
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|
||
"body": "Immediately to the left of DM's processor was the SC-10 paging box, then some memory (I want to say that the MD-10 was there; certainly that's where the ARM-10 went when we got it), and the tape drive. Back row was mostly memory."
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|
||
"body": "I opened another issue https://github.com/PDP-10/-READ--THIS-/issues/5 to talk about the PDP-6 machines in general, unrelated to ITS. I really hope we can piece together more information."
|
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|
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"body": "ITS Hardware Note #1 details some of this. I will scan it this week.\n\nOn Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Timothy Anderson <notifications@github.com\n> wrote:\n\n> Immediately to the left of DM's processor was the SC-10 paging box, then\n> some memory (I want to say that the MD-10 was there; certainly that's where\n> the ARM-10 went when we got it), and the tape drive. Back row was mostly\n> memory.\n>\n> —\n> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.\n> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub\n> <https://github.com/PDP-10/its/issues/181#issuecomment-272702251>, or mute\n> the thread\n> <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AEFUHtuBfLjTYrU4zPWBb31C7oCa2XlVks5rSjtVgaJpZM4LHmwI>\n> .\n>\n\n\n\n-- \nMichael Thompson\n"
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"body": "Even if not ITS, here's another photo of Stanford's KA: http://media.csail.mit.edu/picture.php?/3642/category/173"
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"body": "Thank you, @taa01776. Some say there were 23 PDP-6s made, others 26.\r\n\r\nWho do you think would know about the early times of the DM 6?"
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"body": "I wrote an email to Gordon Bell to ask him if it maybe came from DEC. I doubt he knows this since he was at CMU at the time, but I still thought I'd ask.\r\n\r\nEDIT: He doesn't know."
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"body": "Just now I realized that # 6 at Keydata was basically next door to the AI lab. Another probably candidate for DM, even though Gordon told me this some time ago:\r\n\r\n> Don't recall where the various serial numbers went, but Brookhaven Nat Lab\r\nand U of Western Australia Perth were the first few.\r\nAlso KeyData and Rand. KeyData was returned.\r\nAm not sure when MIT got theirs or the Stanford AI Lab (SAIL).\r\n\r\nMaybe returned and given to MIT?"
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"body": "Is there any documentation for it? I'd love to try to get it working."
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"body": "Is \"Knight TV\" the same thing as what was used as the TV subsystem on the CADR?"
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"body": "I search for AI memos, but came up with nothing. I think you'd better ask TK himself.\r\n\r\nI'll try to help out by reading the monitor sources."
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"body": "@ams That sounds likely."
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"body": "If it is the same as the CADR TV system then there are schematics for the board, source code for the TV sub-system. The CADR TV subsystem is just a memory mapped display. Here is the code that is used in the MIT CADR simulator (https://svn.common-lisp.net/mit-cadr/trunk/emulator/usim/x11.c)\r\n\r\nSchematics: http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/mit/cadr/LM-2/05_TV.pdf\r\n\r\nTV subsystem bits: https://svn.common-lisp.net/mit-cadr/trunk/lisp/window/tvdefs.lisp\r\n\r\nIf it is something different .. then I have no idea. :-)"
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"body": "The framebuffer would probably be the easiest part in this. There has to be a pdp-11 program to drive the terminals and talk to the 10. Then there is software on the 10 side as well. If he have all the code I'm sure the rest could be reconstructed even if there is no other documentation available. Of course having documentation would be of great help."
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"body": "SYSDOC; .CALLS >\r\n\r\n- CNSGET and CSNSET - get or set console parameters\r\n- CORBLK - map TV frame buffer\r\n- T11MP - map PDP-11 memory\r\n- TVWHER - tell where a TV is\r\n- VIDBUF - request/release video buffer\r\n- WHOLIN - get/set TV wholine\r\n\r\nSYSDOC; UUOS >\r\n\r\n- .SUPSET - set sysjob variables, among those a bit to update TV wholine"
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"body": "It seems the Knight TV system was attached to the KA10 AI, so I suppose the TVs went away when the KA did. That would be 1983.\r\n\r\nIt could be that the monitor TV code is tangled with the AIKA code."
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"body": "@aap SYSDOC; TV >\r\n\r\nTo appear soon."
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"body": "~~I don't think I see anything resembling a PDP-11 program for controlling a Knight TV.~~\r\n\r\nStrike that, it's probably SYSTEM; TV 132."
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|
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"body": "May also need to talk through the IO PDP-11. SYSTEM; IOELEV 432.\r\n\r\nBut really, it may be simpler to emulate the workings of the TV subsystem rather than to get the 11 code up and running."
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"body": "Looks like it was primarily a TOPS-20 program, but maybe ported to ITS?\r\n\r\nhttps://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2308.txt"
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"body": "I'm just skyping with Richard Greenblatt and he also explained a bit how the Knight TV worked. The 10-to-11 channel seems to have been a pretty cool but complex thing. We'd definitely some more documentation I think."
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|
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"body": "@ams I did some reading, and now it seems the Lisp Machine TV system was quite distinct from the Knight TVs. I gather the LispM TV was driver by a controller board internal to the system. The Knight TVs were controlled by PDP-11s connected to the AI machine."
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|
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|
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"body": "From SYSTEM; CONFIG >\r\n\r\n ; The following AI-KA stuff is broken since the 10-11 interface doesn't work,\r\n ; but is retained in case it gets fixed.\r\n"
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"body": "Greenblatt doesn't know either. He certainly remembers the machine, but thought it was new. He did say it wasn't the Keydata machine though because he knew that one quite well."
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"body": "That is tremendous news! Thanks.\r\n"
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"body": "Wow, great! @Devon7 may be able to help with the tapes."
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"body": "That sounds amazing! For us LispM hackers as well! I can also shake up people who can read and bake tapes."
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"body": "He said they already got most of the stuff they needed for a LispM system on an emulator off the tapes."
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"body": "@larsbrinkhoff Here is a small note from LMDOC;PROGR as it related to CONS. I'm guessing that the \"1000 line TV\" referes to the later TV on CADR which is 768x1024. Was the Knight TV's resolution 576x454? LMDOC;TVDOC might be of interest then.\r\n\r\n> \tThe initial TV display system is presently hooked to the machine and\r\n> works (although it currently must be driven from the PDP-11 console computer due \r\n> to the lack of the above memory interface). This TV system is completely identical\r\n> to the Knight TV's on the AI PDP-10 in its major performance parameters.\r\n> Sometime in the first half of 1977 we hope to construct an improved TV display\r\n> system (offering 1000 line TV resolution among many other features). This\r\n> improved TV display system would employ the same video buffer memory boards\r\n> as does the current one. These boards mount 16 pin 4K RAMs, and are directly adaptable\r\n> to the new 16K RAMs which are just becomming available. However,\r\n> the improved TV system is only a moderately high priority project since we can get \r\n> along quite nicely with the current TV system for the time being."
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||
"body": "Only for LMI Lambda (though I haven't seen the dumped tapes for that, only code dumps) The early stuff as it relates to ITS may contain things relevant to CADR, or missing revisions, parts of software that ran on them, and what not. PDP-10 and CADR shared all their infrastructure."
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"body": "Ok, then I suppose the CONS had the old Knight TV system, and the CADR had something new.\r\n\r\nLMIO; TV 347 has these numbers:\r\n\r\n ;1037 lines per 16.66 ms frame\r\n ; 640. X 896.\r\n ;704. x 896.\r\n ;Sync for 64 Mhz crystal, 768. x 896.\r\n"
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|
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|
||
"author_association": "MEMBER",
|
||
"body": "We got some new information from Lawrence Krakauer. This is a gem:\r\n"
|
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|
||
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|
||
"author_association": "CONTRIBUTOR",
|
||
"body": "Both delivered and demolished on a Tuesday."
|
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|
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"body": "I wrote one in Maclisp.\r\n\r\nPutting the FASL file in SYSBIN is probably wrong. Where should it go?"
|
||
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|
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"body": "Well, for standard system packages the FASL file goes in the LISP; directory. However, take a look at LIBLSP and LIBDOC, and read the -READ- -ME- there. Author-maintained LISP code seems to have gone in LIBDOC. "
|
||
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|
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|
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"body": "Sorry for the delay - was away from a computer after work on Thursday-Monday morning and was busy yesterday.\r\n\r\nCan do!"
|
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"body": "Trying to use the default configured IP results in networking not coming up at all - it seems to never start the dpimp process - and print no error. **Update: this was due to having forgotten to load the tun driver**\r\n\r\nLooking at the config...\r\nDEFOPT IMPUS3==<IPADDR 192,168,1,100> \t; IP address\r\nDEFOPT NM%IMP==<IPADDR 255,255,255,248>\t; Subnet mask\r\n\r\nand the gateway is 192.168.0.45...how does this work? P-t-P handled differently than I'd expect?"
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"body": "Okay - with it up using the pre-configured IP everything works correctly."
|
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|
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"body": "It took me far too long to realise the address stuff is classful and that 10.12/16 is a different class than the previously configured stuff...\r\n\r\nNow to look at what comsat is actually expecting"
|
||
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"created_at": "2017-01-18T09:52:53Z",
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"updated_at": "2018-03-25T18:08:44Z",
|
||
"author_association": "MEMBER",
|
||
"body": "Assembling a simple file titled BARFOO which just defines `FOOBAR=1234567`.\r\n\r\nFAIL produces this REL file:\r\n\r\n OCTAL SQUOZE\r\n 002004000000 1O9QJV ;Type 10, local sybols\r\n 051301670001 BARFOO\r\n 000000000001 0\r\n 014544243324 FOOBAR\r\n 000001234567 4C%U\r\n 707725407662 9D%33H ;Checksum\r\n 000602000000 %K18N ;Type 3, code\r\n 000000000000 \r\n 000000000000 \r\n 777176777777 $6VBU ;Checksum\r\n 001001000000 0BK8ZV ;Type 4, program name\r\n 051301670001 BARFOO\r\n 725476107776 RCI6%$ ;Checksum\r\n\r\nMIDAS produces this REL file:\r\n\r\n OCTAL SQUOZE\r\n 000600000000 %BXLF ;Type 3, code\r\n 777200777777 $E%%% ;Checksum\r\n 000600000000 %BXLF ;Type 3, code\r\n 777200777777 $E%%% ;Checksum\r\n 000600000000 %BXLF ;Type 3, code\r\n 777200777777 $E%%% ;Checksum\r\n 000202000001 CBI70 ;Type 1, loader command\r\n 000000000000 \r\n 000000000000 \r\n 777576777776 0NFEDD ;Checksum\r\n 002004000000 1O9QJV ;Type 10, local sybols\r\n 051301670001 BARFOO\r\n 000000000000 \r\n 014544243324 FOOBAR\r\n 000001234567 4C%U\r\n 707725407663 9D%33I ;Checksum\r\n 001001000000 0BK8ZV ;Type 4, program name\r\n 051301670001 BARFOO\r\n 725476107776 RCI6%$ ;Checksum\r\n"
|
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"created_at": "2017-01-18T12:42:59Z",
|
||
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|
||
"author_association": "MEMBER",
|
||
"body": "Hold on, I'll add half-word display too."
|
||
},
|
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"created_at": "2017-01-18T13:27:43Z",
|
||
"updated_at": "2017-01-18T13:27:43Z",
|
||
"author_association": "MEMBER",
|
||
"body": "There are many LISP; FORMAT files.\r\n\r\nTried to invoke COMPLR on FORMAT 793, without much success:\r\n\r\n *:complr\r\n _lisp;_format; format >\r\n ;BKPT LISP-ERROR\r\n (baktrace)\r\n BAKTRACE\r\n BREAK_ *BREAK_OUTPUT OUTPUT_MAKLAP MAKLAP_DB\r\n"
|
||
}
|
||
]
|